DAL pilots could strike.

[General Lee]

A strike is a very real possibility if management succeeds in dumping the contract. We barely passed the last pay cut vote, and for most of the pilots (especially the ones I have talked to, which has been a lot)--that was it. There is no way we will allow unlimited scope, a pension dump without credit, and major pay cuts again. Nope. The company has watched United and their huge stock offering and 8% stock offering to their management, and they can see that they possibly could make big $$$$$ if they follow the same route as UAL. That actually is one thing we have going for us---our management wants the same deal--and will also eventually give in for that short term personal gain. They are testing us, and a strike vote will come shortly. I bet it will pass.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dizel8]

We barely passed the last pay cut vote

A little bit pregnant???

They saw it passed the last time, odds are, it'll pass this time. They know that pilots are married to the company, for better or for worse, the only other alternative is walking out the door without the kids. Won't happen, IMHO!

 

[CKJET]

Come on guys, let's face reality.

These modern planes pretty much fly themselves. The pay rates at Delta right now are outrageously high. Being paid those high salaries to press the autpilot button is just fiscally irresponsible.

And what's all of this noise about a strike? Tell me, what talents do the Delta pilots have other than being pilots? What would they do if they didn't have their airline job? Lucky for guys like me and Gerald, you pilots are all totally dependent on the airline, like a junky on crack.

We need to keep the money where it belongs, in the executive suite. Grinstein has wisely hired me as a consultant. The latest executive retention bonus was my idea. We can't afford to lose any of our irreplaceable talent that has done a spectacular job of getting Delta to the place it is today.

A strike. Thanks for the laugh guys! You guys crack me up!

See you at the Country Club!

Question why would someone call them selves Frank Lorenzo in this fourm? If you thought you were being funny you are wrong.

 

[General Lee]

A little bit pregnant???

They saw it passed the last time, odds are, it'll pass this time. They know that pilots are married to the company, for better or for worse, the only other alternative is walking out the door without the kids. Won't happen, IMHO!

Say what? You don't know that. The last time was barely passed, and that will be it for many. A 58% pass rate shows me that it won't take much more to vote the next one down. If you can't see that, then you can't see reality. Most of us CAN. There is a lot riding on a deal being made, including a large amount of money for management if this passes eventually--and it will have to be negotiated. Did you ever think of that? I didn't think so. A lot of management types want to be like their United counterparts, and they won't if we say NO. The creditors don't want this thing to die either. Neither does the Governor of Georgia and a bunch of other local and State leaders around the country. There is plenty of pressure on management to get this done too. You don't seem to bring any of that up. Neither does Neil "I eat my own poop" Boring--Boortz.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dizel8]

Of course the pilots are willing to give up their houses, cars, college tuition for the kids etc?

Easy to posture, Saddam did it well, but when shan hits the fits, rapid collapse.

There are a lot of money to be made, a lot of money at stake on both sides. I have no doubt, that you would consider it and would have to give it much thought, but in the end, taking another paycut while still flying or going to Home Depot is a no brainer. I certainly respect that choice!

 

[PAA744]

DAL & NWA need to be united!!!! No not UAL / nor AAL...

Delta and Northwest need to join together, along with UAL & AAL and anyone else that will join in and shut the WHOLE country down - at least that is what Air France' does - just ask camembert - he will tell you.

Any individual (read specific airline) trying to exercise "self-help" in this environment will cause a Murder-Suicide of their respective company...

that is my take

 

[ironspud]

Say what? You don't know that. The last time was barely passed, and that will be it for many. A 58% pass rate shows me that it won't take much more to vote the next one down. If you can't see that, then you can't see reality. Most of us CAN. There is a lot riding on a deal being made, including a large amount of money for management if this passes eventually--and it will have to be negotiated. Did you ever think of that? I didn't think so. A lot of management types want to be like their United counterparts, and they won't if we say NO. The creditors don't want this thing to die either. Neither does the Governor of Georgia and a bunch of other local and State leaders around the country. There is plenty of pressure on management to get this done too. You don't seem to bring any of that up. Neither does Neil "I eat my own poop" Boring--Boortz.


Bye Bye--General Lee

58%? That's incredibly high. Stands to reason then that the next vote will be the industry standard. 53 to 47. Company wins. Just the way it is.

 

[General Lee]

58%? That's incredibly high. Stands to reason then that the next vote will be the industry standard. 53 to 47. Company wins. Just the way it is.

Wow, that was fantastic. Great reasoning. ?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SkyWench]

World struck and settled in a few days.

World Airways is also represented by Teamsters....Alpa and DAL don't have the guts to strike, we all know that one.

 

[Einstein]

My expert opinion is this: Delta pilots will not strike. To many ex-wives to pay for, to many vacation homes to pay for, to many child support payments, and last but not least, NO BALLS

 

[Dizel8]

Why cut of your leg if you only have gangrene in the toe?

 

[Freight Dog]

UAL+1%! And they'll get it too...

DALPA will fold like a house of cards... seen it happen at every ALPA carrier since 9/11. All this macho strike talk is a bunch of hot air. Reality is the judge will tell the union - settle or I'll settle it for you - you'll be way better off with a negotiated settlement than an imposed one.

Watch the cards fold.... the new agreement will pass with at least 65% vote.
General, if you do strike... the shoe will never taste so good. But the reality is that ALPA has been impotent ever since 9/11.

 

[General Lee]

UAL+1%! And they'll get it too...

DALPA will fold like a house of cards... seen it happen at every ALPA carrier since 9/11. All this macho strike talk is a bunch of hot air. Reality is the judge will tell the union - settle or I'll settle it for you - you'll be way better off with a negotiated settlement than an imposed one.

Watch the cards fold.... the new agreement will pass with at least 65% vote.
General, if you do strike... the shoe will never taste so good. But the reality is that ALPA has been impotent ever since 9/11.

Again, a genius remark. The judge cannot do that. All he can do is decide to throw out the whole contract. If he does that, we are free to strike. The only real negotiations can go on between the company and Dalpa. Even the three man board (which was incorrectly labeled as "binding arbitration") can only decide to keep the whole contract, or throw the whole thing out. Again, if that happens, we are free to strike. Just mentioning a threat of a strike is bad publicity, and the busy Summer Season is coming up. I don't think any of us think that nothing else will be "taken" from us, it is just we want real negotiations, and the company wants to ride the 1113 train as long as possible. There are some things we will not budge on, and that will become apparent to Delta soon. The management also stands to lose millions of dollars in stock options (like UAL got--8% of the company) if they let this thing die. Most of our senior guys now have no pension left (after it is dropped) and most have 9-10 years to go until 60. There are other opportunities out there for most. Nevertheless, you have to show a united front to just get negotiations to happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

My expert opinion is this: Delta pilots will not strike. To many ex-wives to pay for, to many vacation homes to pay for, to many child support payments, and last but not least, NO BALLS

Wow, you are a genius, except for your use of the English language. TOO many beers last night? Great first post. Wonderful. (you seem to have forgoten that we actually brought the pay wages up to the highest level they have ever been....you forgot that OLD MAN)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Networ-King]

Wow, that was fantastic. Great reasoning. ?


Bye Bye--General Lee

yeah....

And how many retards in the double breasted black suit failed to cast a vote in that 58% yes vote? So many idiots over there still oblivious to their surroundings that the only thing on their aggenda is to greenslip. They are the greediest bunch of A*&holes and they won't even come close to striking, not because they have no BALLS, thats already been proven time and time again, but its because the majority of the delta pukes only think about themselves.... hence all the back stabbing. Hey General.... how's that koolaid buddy..... can't wait till March 1st so you can come up with yet another lame A$$ excuse for those POS you call management and "delta pilots".

Its just a matter of time now......what goes around comes around....
and in the words of EARL.... Karma's a bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Heavy Set]

My expert opinion is this: Delta pilots will not strike. To many ex-wives to pay for, to many vacation homes to pay for, to many child support payments, and last but not least, NO BALLS

You sound like a complete idiot. The DAL pilots are the only ones with BALL$ you jacka$$. They have attempted to maintain the high wage standard while most other pax airlines (excludes Fedex and UPS) are seeing declining wages... This industry is imploding in case you haven't noticed. They brought the wages standards up a few years back.

By the way, in case you didn't learn this in 3rd grade, it should be "too" vs. "to." Good one Einstein.

 

[Heavy Set]

yeah....

And how many retards in the double breasted black suit failed to cast a vote in that 58% yes vote? So many idiots over there still oblivious to their surroundings that the only thing on their aggenda is to greenslip. They are the greediest bunch of A*&holes and they won't even come close to striking, not because they have no BALLS, thats already been proven time and time again, but its because the majority of the delta pukes only think about themselves.... hence all the back stabbing. Hey General.... how's that koolaid buddy..... can't wait till March 1st so you can come up with yet another lame A$$ excuse for those POS you call management and "delta pilots".

Its just a matter of time now......what goes around comes around....
and in the words of EARL.... Karma's a bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What would you do if you lost 2300 Captains in 18 months? How would you crew your aircraft? The remaining pilots pretty much have lost their pensions... I guess you would just park the airplanes - right? Would you want normal pay for flying on your days off? The airplanes have to be flown NOW to generate revenue and the remaining pilots are paid more on their days off. Inverse assignments are double pay while greenslips are time and a half. The airplanes will be flown regardless - which is cheaper?

Sure, there are some abuses and the furloughees should be brought back ASAP, but you have to fly the airplanes... Do the JetBlue guys fly at their normal rates after 70 hours?

 

[Networ-King]

You sound like a complete idiot. The DAL pilots are the only ones with BALL$ you jacka$$. They have attempted to maintain the high wage standard while most other pax airlines (excludes Fedex and UPS) are seeing declining wages... This industry is imploding in case you haven't noticed. They brought the wages standards up a few years back.

By the way, in case you didn't learn this in 3rd grade, it should be "too" vs. "to." Good one Einstein.

Heavy,

The delta pilots did bring the wages up just like UAL did, but the difference is that the greedy delta pilots took their precious raises 3 time since 9/11 to bring up their FAE (final average earnings) for their retirements.... and all this while the whole industry, except for a couple of airlines, were bleeding money nonstop. So to a certain extent your correct, but I think it was more because of greed rather then having the balls as you mention it.

 

[CaptainMark]

Heavy,

The delta pilots did bring the wages up just like UAL did, but the difference is that the greedy delta pilots took their precious raises 3 time since 9/11 to bring up their FAE (final average earnings) for their retirements.... and all this while the whole industry, except for a couple of airlines, were bleeding money nonstop. So to a certain extent your correct, but I think it was more because of greed rather then having the balls as you mention it.

GREED!! you must be referring to management

 

[Networ-King]

What would you do if you lost 2300 Captains in 18 months? How would you crew your aircraft? The remaining pilots pretty much have lost their pensions... I guess you would just park the airplanes - right? Would you want normal pay for flying on your days off? The airplanes have to be flown NOW to generate revenue and the remaining pilots are paid more on their days off. Inverse assignments are double pay while greenslips are time and a half. The airplanes will be flown regardless - which is cheaper?

Sure, there are some abuses and the furloughees should be brought back ASAP, but you have to fly the airplanes... Do the JetBlue guys fly at their normal rates after 70 hours?

My job is to move the airplanes and not plan the mannig of the airline, thats way above my paygrade and yet these morons can't even get that right. The fact that you just argued is that management has to do what they have to do, but the "GREEDY" pilots dont have to stab their brothers in the back for money...... isn't that what unity is? You sacrifice a little for the ones that have sacrificed everything because of managements stupidity? Ok you have to fly the planes to make money, thats true, but if the greedy sob's didn't fly the planes on greenslips then the planes might not move for a short time. Management would not let this happen for long. Then and only then through UNITY, management would have to bring back the guys that are on furlough and their precious planes would move once again, but this time they take care of their own and not hang them out to dry. IMHO......

 

[Networ-King]

GREED!! you must be referring to management

Mark,

No.... delta management is greedy, but the pilots kept taking and taking just like management did. All they were thinking about and are still thinking about is themselves. Sad but true.......

 

[General Lee]

Heavy,

The delta pilots did bring the wages up just like UAL did, but the difference is that the greedy delta pilots took their precious raises 3 time since 9/11 to bring up their FAE (final average earnings) for their retirements.... and all this while the whole industry, except for a couple of airlines, were bleeding money nonstop. So to a certain extent your correct, but I think it was more because of greed rather then having the balls as you mention it.

Greed? And Leo Mullin didn't have any greed? I remember telling Michelle Burns to sell those fuel hedges. It was all my fault. And, I remember whispering into Leo's ear to just do nothing about USAir--they will eventually just go away.....Yeah, that's the ticket. And, I really do remember telling Leo to buy $2 billion in stock just prior to 9-11, and not to use that money on debt. Buying stock could do nothing but maybe raise the stock price a tad, for all of those precious options that Leo and the others had waiting for them. Also, I think it would have been a great time to give back wages right after we learned about the secret offshore accounts for the SERP. Yeah, I think we were all in a giving mood then.....A lot of people like to blame the pilots for the downfall, even though we were a fixed cost---in the books---it was all right there. Atleast 2300 guys left, and that could benefit the rest of us if this thing stays upright.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

My job is to move the airplanes and not plan the mannig of the airline, thats way above my paygrade and yet these morons can't even get that right. The fact that you just argued is that management has to do what they have to do, but the "GREEDY" pilots dont have to stab their brothers in the back for money...... isn't that what unity is? You sacrifice a little for the ones that have sacrificed everything because of managements stupidity? Ok you have to fly the planes to make money, thats true, but if the greedy sob's didn't fly the planes on greenslips then the planes might not move for a short time. Management would not let this happen for long. Then and only then through UNITY, management would have to bring back the guys that are on furlough and their precious planes would move once again, but this time they take care of their own and not hang them out to dry. IMHO......

Heavy Set is correct. Flying on your days off should be for extra pay. It does penalize the company for their manning shortfalls. But, the way our contract allowed guys to leave with 24 hours notice, (which was good for the pilots when the GATT rate was the multiplier for the lump sums) the company had to offer greenslips. It was the only way to keep the planes flying. You have to remember that most of the trips were paid at regular rates, and that only trips on days off were green (unless you got an greenslip with conflict, which may have happened). And, we did recall a bunch of people during that time, But, we had to fly planes to keep the revenue going, and groups of 400 senior guys were retiring on the 30th or 31st of each month. That was the situation, and we had to deal with it. Some people did well, and some people retired a year earlier than they really had to. That is the way it goes, and having 2300 guys retire actually saved the current bottom 1500. Like it or not, we have parked older planes, and that would have happened anyway. Instead of having the current 475 on furlough, we would have close to 2000.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

yeah....

And how many retards in the double breasted black suit failed to cast a vote in that 58% yes vote?

What's wrong with the double breasted suit?? The chicks dig it!

So many idiots over there still oblivious to their surroundings that the only thing on their aggenda is to greenslip. They are the greediest bunch of A*&holes and they won't even come close to striking, not because they have no BALLS, thats already been proven time and time again, but its because the majority of the delta pukes only think about themselves.... hence all the backstabbing

Not really...Though I have never greenslipped, it is a contractual right. Some peoples' agendas may differ from yours. I just do my job and go home. Don't voulanteer (sp) for overtime, and if I'm inverse assigned, I just tell them I have child care issues. Senior pilots have more at stake and to lose than the junior folks. The bottom 1000 will be voting AGAINST any future concessions, I will put any money on that, but, if you're 47-52 years old, its a little tough to start out at the bottom seniority of another airline. That's why we vote!

Hey General.... how's that koolaid buddy..... can't wait till March 1st so you can come up with yet another lame A$$ excuse for those POS you call management and "delta pilots".

Are you even a DL pilot?? You obviously don't have a dog in this fight, so what do you care? I think your assumption of the DL pilots is a little of base, and I think you're way out of line. I don't see you thumping your chest at the pilots of US Airways, UAL, AMR, NWA for taking a paycut. Get off your soapbox pal, its a long fall down.

Its just a matter of time now......what goes around comes around....
and in the words of EARL.... Karma's a bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does that mean?? Oh, that our demise/liquadition?? SO be it. I have another job, this is my second income. There's also a saying about throwing stones in glass houses. Which house do you live in??
737

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Actually, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the NWA and DAL MECs are working together to coordinate their strike efforts. Both out together represent a fair chunk of the total US RPMs, covering a vast swath of the US. It's guarenteed to put a notch in someone's travel plans.

A coordinated effort would certainly get attention.

Nu

 

[satpak77]

lots of noise and static on the freq...

lots of jibber jabber and noise on this thread

I offer two scenarios, which basically at the end of the day, are in my opinion, the only outcome if the contract is tossed

1. Pilots will not strike

2. Pilots strike and the company is done, turn the lights out, over.

In my opinion, the contract will be tossed (management actions lately have shown an eagerness to CUT things versus HEAL things), and pilots will not strike.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Attention DAL Pilots:

This profession is in the crapper... no surprise there.


Your the last line of defense. You have my 100% support if you walk, because I'd do the same the thing! Hopefully you guys will stand your ground, and this death spiral will stop. I for one will appreciate your efforts.

 

[Networ-King]

What's wrong with the double breasted suit?? The chicks dig it!


Not really...Though I have never greenslipped, it is a contractual right. Some peoples' agendas may differ from yours. I just do my job and go home. Don't voulanteer (sp) for overtime, and if I'm inverse assigned, I just tell them I have child care issues. Senior pilots have more at stake and to lose than the junior folks. The bottom 1000 will be voting AGAINST any future concessions, I will put any money on that, but, if you're 47-52 years old, its a little tough to start out at the bottom seniority of another airline. That's why we vote!


Are you even a DL pilot?? You obviously don't have a dog in this fight, so what do you care? I think your assumption of the DL pilots is a little of base, and I think you're way out of line. I don't see you thumping your chest at the pilots of US Airways, UAL, AMR, NWA for taking a paycut. Get off your soapbox pal, its a long fall down.


What does that mean?? Oh, that our demise/liquadition?? SO be it. I have another job, this is my second income. There's also a saying about throwing stones in glass houses. Which house do you live in??
737

737,

Im part of the first 400 to get furloughed from mother douche. Yes I know its a contractual right to fly opentime and screw the furloughs, but my point is that delta line pilots should be doing what your doing. Their job and no more. It wouldn't take long to bring back the furloughs if guys would just stop being so darn greedy. Sad thing is that its not the top 400 guys whoring themselves out anymore. I was trying to nonrev the other day and the Mad dog got filled up so I sat up front and the freaking FO was on a greenslip, not the captain the FO. Contractually his right you are correct, but one of the worst things line pilots could do to their furloughed ....supposed brothers and sisters.

Now Dalpa could grow a pair like the AMWEST alpa and fine the guys that fly opentime.....there mec put out a memo telling pilots that they could fly opentime, but would have to pay a certain amount.... any AMWEST guys have that memo still????

Glass houses? Im sorry if you don't know what company is called brown, but thats where Im hoping to hang my hat till 60 or 65 whichever. Things could go south here too, but at least the IPA is a true brotherhood and a true union, not just a bunch of greedy SOB's whoring themselves out. I believe last month the delta greedy pukes flew 890 hours of opentime again.....hhhhhmmmm I wonder how many of the furloughed guys on the SNRL that are still waiting would have been recalled by now if all that open time would have been left alone???? (AND I DO MEAN OPENTIME FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS 3 MONTHS AND 11 DAYS????) Who cares though huh? As long as they have their jobs being furloughed is part of being junior.......

General,

You still didn't answer me...... how many guys failed to vote last time about the consessions? Why do you think ANY line pilot would not even bother to vote on such an important issue? Answer: ??????????? OBLIVIOUS

PS.... no way in HE!! the delta pukes will strike......they'll buckle and more consessions are in the works...... Moak talks a big game, but he is married to delta like the above posts said.

 

[ultrarunner]

Im part of the first 400 to get furloughed from mother douche. Yes I know its a contractual right to fly opentime and screw the furloughs, but my point is that delta line pilots should be doing what your doing. Their job and no more.

Networ-King, in a perfect world with a strong union, that would be great. You don't either. And morgage company's don't really care that you've taken a 40% cut in pay, anymore than they cared when you took a 100% cut in pay.

And I don't look down on anyone for doing what they need to do to take care of their families. THAT, my friend, is their first repsonsiblity. ALPA support of their sisters and brothers, beit from national or the local level, is WAY WAY down the list.

And that's just the way it is.

good luck.

 

[General Lee]

lots of jibber jabber and noise on this thread

I offer two scenarios, which basically at the end of the day, are in my opinion, the only outcome if the contract is tossed

1. Pilots will not strike

2. Pilots strike and the company is done, turn the lights out, over.

In my opinion, the contract will be tossed (management actions lately have shown an eagerness to CUT things versus HEAL things), and pilots will not strike.

Satpak,

You overlook the obvious here. We want a negotiated settlement (since we have already given 47%), and the only way to do that is to make some noise. Making noise---especially before the busy travel Summer season, is good. It is all part of this game. Management is seeing how far they can go with the 1113 process since they are in Chap 11 and you might as well go for everything. We know this. But, there are some real external pressures out there---not only from local and State governments, but also GREED. They obviously have watched the UAL deal through it's conclusion, and saw the management got 8% of the new stock. That could be worth MILLIONS. IF they can get through this, then the top 300 or 400 people can get loads of stock, and eventually sell it and buy their dream house. It is true. So, they have a vested interest in getting through this too. This is all posturing. They have set up all of these new INTL routes, and they have a lot at stake. We have a few things that we will not budge on, and that has to be communicated through "possible strike" statements in the media. Will we strike? Maybe. Will we get a strike vote? Yes, and it will pass to put more pressure on the company. Then the Governor will get involved, and it will get straightened out. But, things like scope and credit for a pension dump will be ours, no doubt. But, don't get wrapped up in this---we will vote to strike and it will come down to the wire. We know a prolonged strike would kill us---and everyone else knows that too. That is the key.

Bye Bye---General Lee