DAL pilots as dumb as CAL pilots?

[Patriot328]

Take a look at CAL scope and then look at DAL scope, and ask yourself who are the dumb pilots?

I would normally hand over my contract for review to prove my point, but currently some management person is wiping their ass with it....

GL covered the rest of it.

 

[michael707767]

I would normally hand over my contract for review to prove my point, but currently some management person is wiping their ass with it....

GL covered the rest of it.

all good points. But you know what, everything else in a contract is negotiable. Once you give away scope, it is gone forever. Delta pilots will never take back 76 seat or less scope. Which effectively means we will never see a 100 seater at the mainline, since there is no way they will ever fly an aircraft at the mainline that is only 24 seats larger than DCI.

 

[crj567]

How many billion does DAL have to lose before you guys finally recognize that you are not at the top of the heap?

Q: who is stupider, the guy who works for a company that has not been through BK and trashed all its benefits-all while losing tens of billions, or the other guy-who may not have the best contract ever, but works for a company which has consistently turned a profit?

-I know, SWA sucks because they wear funny clothes, American sucks because they HAVE NOT been through BK (at least according to Gen Lee.) And CAL sucks because they make money, but have a crappy contract-and so on and so forth, and blah, and blah, and blah.....

-That sub commander getup must just suck all critical thinking ability right out of one's head...

-Whatever-believe whatever you need to in order to make your little view of the world work, but let's not criticize people who have chosen to make a sound enough choice to go and work for a company which has made an actual profit in the last decade or so.

 

[Pocono Pilot]

CAL pilots are definitely the dumbest pilots ever.

I used to think that retards were dumb, but CAL pilots make retards look smart. LOL

 

[Patriot328]

CAL pilots are definitely the dumbest pilots ever.

I used to think that retards were dumb, but CAL pilots make retards look smart. LOL

Go back to fluffing your horse....

 

[Superpilot92]

oh sweet, another "My airline's better than your airline" thread!!

This is uber awesomeness!!

 

[whymeworry?]

Read the article. DAL is not using an extra billion it has sitting around. A couple hundred million in the bank yes, but the rest is from other sources.

As for the CBA, not as good as it might have been, but it brought to very different working groups under the same PWA, it equaled out our pay, gave a road map for a successful merger, and made every other thing we normally piss and moan about with mergers moot, so as far as pay goes, we are getting raises when everyone else is stagnant.
It was not perfect, but it is far from a shot between the eyes. Put the fricken thing in context.

As for JAL, it is very important that we garner access to Haneda one way or another. It is important for DAL pilots too! I have stated we should get a decent quid pro quo for taking on the risk of a sick company in a bad economy, but in the end if DAL wins this deal our MEC better make sure it is beneficial to our pilots. I as many have given our input to our reps. All we can do is watch events unfold!

I read the article. Other sources could've meant your increased stock options as well. Why is it you guys always make excuses for your mgmt and your union's shafting? You already signed a concessionary contract. And with the threat of the merger looming y'all got scared and took the bait for a below average contract for another 4 years.

 

[whymeworry?]

General et al,

Do you work for mgmt? You never say anything ill of your beloved DAL despite getting repeatedly screwed since your first concessionary contract. You guys screwed the pooch at a time when you had the leverage to get a your paycut returned to you. And you sit here and brag?

Comparing your contract to a CAL one is a bit like a highschool honor roll student, who just failed a course, telling a pre-schooler how much better at math he is. It still won't change the fact that he failed a course.

We all know the CAL contract sucks. And we all know CAL pilots are idiots for voting it in. Read the title of my post. But we took our hit back when you guys did in 04-05. We were offered up something better last summer ('08) but we didn't take the bait instead chosing to fight for an industry-leading agreement... which we will get.

This is about labor and union leadership falling for mgmt's excuse of "sorry guys there just isn't any more money to give". Mgmt will always find the funds for whatever venture they have, be it new airplanes, a new terminal, or a new route structure. PILOTs ought not to be the ones paying for that venture. Put another way, had you fought for a proper raise, you'd have gotten it.

Yes, General, I realize there is an small grain of potential for a JAL tie-up to lead to more flying for you guys. But be real. If the JAL pilots can do that flying for less they will. It will go to the cheapest bidder.

Back to the point of the thead. Mgmt has the money. Don't take the bait.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I read the article. Other sources could've meant your increased stock options as well. Why is it you guys always make excuses for your mgmt and your union's shafting? You already signed a concessionary contract. And with the threat of the merger looming y'all got scared and took the bait for a below average contract for another 4 years.

Go to the other board and see how much we are defending management. We have no deal with JAL or the Company on this, yet.

We all want restoration. I am at the top of that list. I agree that the contract we are under is concessionary. It is the 1113C contract with a little more pay. Way to long, IMHO, but as they say that is water under the bridge, and management will state a contract is a contract.
2012 is fast approaching and many are already out for blood. If LM is true to his word he is in his last term.

 

[whymeworry?]

Go to the other board and see how much we are defending management. We have no deal with JAL or the Company on this, yet.

We all want restoration. I am at the top of that list. I agree that the contract we are under is concessionary. It is the 1113C contract with a little more pay. Way to long, IMHO, but as they say that is water under the bridge, and management will state a contract is a contract.
2012 is fast approaching and many are already out for blood. If LM is true to his word he is in his last term.

Hence, I rest my point. You guys took the bait so did we. The threat of an ugly merger unless you sign on this "deal" now. Just as we CAL pilots took the bait in 04-05... the threat of the company filing CH11 unless we sign this deal now (this was told to us by our union officials, who all now work in mgmt btw, not by the company). Right after we signed, mgmt suddenly had the money to fund 111 new aircraft orders, winglets for 737-300s, 500s, NGs, 757-200s, money for upgrading terminals, etc. Oh, and they even paid themselves $50 million in bonus' immediately after we signed. And those bonuses continue to climb every year, despite our losing money.

The point is, the price of a pilot is the price of a pilot. They'll have to pay whatever we tell them to becuase we tell them to. The money is there. It always is. But if we cower in fear and intimidation we can all continue this death spiral to the bottom.

Even Alaska airlines recently inducted a poor contract (not a slight against any pilot there, but y'all should've asked for more). Every pilot group these days seems too scared to stand up for their profession, yet is all too eager to stand up for their airline (The General is really good at this. DAL can do no wrong in his eyes)... which has all the money for everything but an increase in pilot compensation.

Ironaically, the airline we all love to hate (for their incrediblely successful fuel hedges), SWA was the only pilot group of late to stand up to mgmt and call them at their game. They voted down a sub-standard TA and didn't cower with fear.

Remember, this is not about whose airline is better or whose contract is better. This is about being pressured into accepting less than your worth because of some impending threat by mgmt and the union.