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DAL/NWA Seniority

~~~^~~~

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A little Flight Info resolution:

Whereas Northwest Airlines and their pilots agreed to outsource their small jet flying.

Whereas Delta Air Lines Pilots voted affirmatively to endorse NWA's outsourcing scheme.

Whereas neither Delta, nor Northwest pilots, want to be anywhere near the bottom numbers, so as to be effected by the outsourcing both sides voted for and now this has become a controversial divider of the pilots.

Whereas rumors of Corporate transactions designed to undermine scope and job protection provisions are beginning to circulate and generally there has been a trend away from enforcement of Section 1 of airline pilot contracts.

Let it hereby be resolved that Compass, Mesaba and any further outsourced flying will be performed by pilots on the Delta seniority list.

(I for one would be much less concerned about SLI if we had not agreed to outsource so many jobs, so rather than fight each other, why not fix the problem by extending one list to cover the brand's flying, the maximum extent possible?)
 
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DrewBlows

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Is it even possible to integrate Mesaba, Compass, and Comair (hmm...you must have forgot about them)? If I were a betting man I would bet that Delta management wants nothing to do with more pilots on the Delta seniority list.

If it's possible sign me up. I certainly didn't come to Compass hoping for a career here.

As an aside, I think it would be much easier to staple Compass to the bottom of the list than Mesaba or Comair. There are no senior pilots here to offer resitance to a plan as there are at Comair and Mesaba.
 

michael707767

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As an aside, I think it would be much easier to staple Compass to the bottom of the list than Mesaba or Comair. There are no senior pilots here to offer resitance to a plan as there are at Comair and Mesaba.

Why would they be stapled? According to NWA pilot philosophy, they should get DOH.
 

Superpilot92

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Why would they be stapled? According to NWA pilot philosophy, they should get DOH.


Apples to oranges, Junior Varsity players dont play on Varsity just because they are all football players. Different levels different argument. (nothing against regional guys i was just making a point)
 

clippyrip

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......
Or you could go with relative seniority. One compass top captain then one Delta top captain, seems fair, should not matter that the Delta pilot has been at the company for years.
 

michael707767

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Apples to oranges, Junior Varsity players dont play on Varsity just because they are all football players. Different levels different argument. (nothing against regional guys i was just making a point)

I actually agree. That's my point.

ALPA represents many airlines, from majors to small regionals. Their merger policy has to be applicable to any merger. What is fair is that everyone keeps what they came to the table with. That means your current position, your career expectation, pay, etc. Hence the current policy.

But if DOH doesn't apply to all mergers, then it doesn't apply to any mergers. Your DOH does not determine what you bring to the table.
 

PeanuckleCRJ

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Apples to oranges, Junior Varsity players dont play on Varsity just because they are all football players. Different levels different argument. (nothing against regional guys i was just making a point)


Oh that's it... JoeMerchant is NOT a JV player. He's Varsity dangit! Put him in, coach!
 

Superpilot92

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Or you could go with relative seniority. One compass top captain then one Delta top captain, seems fair, should not matter that the Delta pilot has been at the company for years.

LMAO thats classic i didnt even think about that. Nice, see neither argument works when your talking about Mainline vs Regional.
 

Superpilot92

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Oh that's it... JoeMerchant is NOT a JV player. He's Varsity dangit! Put him in, coach!


JoeMerchant is the waterboy/cheerleader, again we're talking apples to oranges here!! ;) :cartman:
 

FDJ2

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Or you could go with relative seniority. One compass top captain then one Delta top captain, seems fair, should not matter that the Delta pilot has been at the company for years.

Makes perfect sense for integrating comparable equipment and status. Does Compass have comparable equipment?
 

Superpilot92

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Makes perfect sense for integrating comparable equipment and status. Does Compass have comparable equipment?


Some of you just cant stop can you? What he said is no different than what Michael said about the DOH argument. Both are pointless when talking about regional vs mainline. Nuff said :cool:
 

FDJ2

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Some of you just cant stop can you? What he said is no different than what Michael said about the DOH argument. Both are pointless when talking about regional vs mainline. Nuff said :cool:

Nuff said, I don't think so. Show me where in ALPA merger policy there are different goals in a merger for regional pilots.
In a regional/mainline merger and SLI, regional pilots are entitled to the same consideration as any other pilot. The value of the jobs they bring to the merger would have to be weighed and balanced against their mainline counterparts. Obviously if they don't bring comparable equipment/jobs, then that needs to be considered.

The fallacy of a DOH integration is that it does not balance the equities, as ALPA merger policy demands, that each pilot group brings to the merger. The date of hire argument is equivalent to claiming that a Euro and a Peso have equal value if they were minted on the same day. They don't. What matters is what a Euro, or a Peso can buy. Similarly, what day your seniority was minted doesn't matter, what matters is what your seniority can buy. Can it buy you a DC-9 left seat, or a 757 left seat?
 

ACL65PILOT

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True, but a win-less argument, hence arbitration.
Some do not get it.
 

JoeMerchant

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Oh that's it... JoeMerchant is NOT a JV player. He's Varsity dangit! Put him in, coach!

.....this is getting good.....

Your analogy is actually good Peanuckle.....In ALPA we have Freshman, JV, and Varsity levels.....Those levels are arbitrarily set by the Varsity folks....

I don't want to become a Varsity benchwarmer.....and I don't want a Varsity player to bump me off my starting position on the JV team...

I like my position.....Why do some Varsity folks want to join the JV team at the top when they get cut?
 

Superpilot92

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Nuff said, I don't think so. Show me where in ALPA merger policy there are different goals in a merger for regional pilots.
In a regional/mainline merger and SLI, regional pilots are entitled to the same consideration as any other pilot. The value of the jobs they bring to the merger would have to be weighed and balanced against their mainline counterparts. Obviously if they don't bring comparable equipment/jobs, then that needs to be considered.

The fallacy of a DOH integration is that it does not balance the equities, as ALPA merger policy demands, that each pilot group brings to the merger. The date of hire argument is equivalent to claiming that a Euro and a Peso have equal value if they were minted on the same day. They don't. What matters is what a Euro, or a Peso can buy. Similarly, what day your seniority was minted doesn't matter, what matters is what your seniority can buy. Can it buy you a DC-9 left seat, or a 757 left seat?


Your opinion and you welcome to it. Differences in opinion are why its in arbitration right now, nuff said? Some people on here ^^^^ act like they are the arbitrators when they arent. ;) We know you think you're right and we're wrong but no matter how many times you think it, type it, or say it, It wont change the fact that not everyone see's it your way. Hence arbitration ;)
 

General Lee

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Nuff said, I don't think so. Show me where in ALPA merger policy there are different goals in a merger for regional pilots.
In a regional/mainline merger and SLI, regional pilots are entitled to the same consideration as any other pilot. The value of the jobs they bring to the merger would have to be weighed and balanced against their mainline counterparts. Obviously if they don't bring comparable equipment/jobs, then that needs to be considered.

The fallacy of a DOH integration is that it does not balance the equities, as ALPA merger policy demands, that each pilot group brings to the merger. The date of hire argument is equivalent to claiming that a Euro and a Peso have equal value if they were minted on the same day. They don't. What matters is what a Euro, or a Peso can buy. Similarly, what day your seniority was minted doesn't matter, what matters is what your seniority can buy. Can it buy you a DC-9 left seat, or a 757 left seat?


Great post.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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