DAL/NWA Combination....should regional guys be worried?

[John Pennekamp]

Why would they do that? Serious question.

To stop the erosion of their flying due to management leveraging scope concessions for more and larger RJs, and then whipsawing everyone with the pay rates, and placing downward pressure on everyone. Once again, all Delta flying will be performed by Delta Pilots.

 

[pipe]

And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?

Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

Why do you take your job so personally? Jabs at the regionals and animosity at what they have made of this profession are not jabs at you. These jabs however are reasonable, understandable, and rooted in historical fact.

If you want to make a career of the regionals - go ahead, more power to you. It reminds me though of another industry group that has always tried to make a career out of what was never meant to be more than a job. I'll give you one guess who that group is. They often carry a similar chip on their shoulder as well as a ferocious inferiority complex.

PIPE

 

[jke406]

I'll put my pay check up against yours that that doesn't happen. Delta and Eastern used to fly DC-9s from ATL to "East Bumblefu_k". Also Macon, Columbus, Augusta, etc. Didn't work out so good.

Bro, I'd say your paycheck is already riding on that assumption--whether I bet you or not.

The industry is in a slightly different place than it was with your examples...point-to-point travel is far more possible (and necessary) now with the advent of legitimate LCCs.

 

[INIT REF]

I'll put my pay check up against yours that that doesn't happen. Delta and Eastern used to fly DC-9s from ATL to "East Bumblefu_k". Also Macon, Columbus, Augusta, etc. Didn't work out so good.

Yeah. They got cheaper labor to do it. You.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yeah. They got cheaper labor to do it. You.

Only because they SOLD scope for benefits. Come up with a better one.

 

[PuffDriver]

And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.


Not at all. I am quite popular amongst my comrads, which include a broad spectrum of mil, civ, regional, majors, and even non-airline. You just can't seem to accept the fact that the job of ASA is primarily feed. You feed people to larger jets. Comair does the exact same thing, with the exact same jet. So do about 6 other airlines. The amount of work doled out to you and others is directly related to what the Delta pilots negotiate in their contract. Delta pilots negotiate, on a regular basis how much work you get. It is no more or no less than that. Your ego can't seem to understand that you are in a support role. Just because you cannot accept it, does not make it so. No amount of breath holding, blame casting on Delta pilots, topic switching, foot stomping, or fit throwing on flightinfo is going to change that fact.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?


Sure, could happen. If so, skywest pilots would just pick up the slack. BTW, no where did I say that you were insignificant. Feed is VERY significant. Without feed, we don't make money. At the same time, we could provide our own feed. There is nothing contractually against Delta pilots doing 100% of Delta flying. There would also be nothing precluding Delta pilots from actually putting 100% of Delta flying in our contract. You cannot say the same thing.


Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

This is where you are incorrect, and where your inexperience shows. First of all, there is no ever was, any way of legally putting you on our list. Never had to be done legally, probably never will. Compare that to NWA pilots. If the companies merge, they will have to legally be a part of a combined list with us according to our contract. Even if we desired to put you on our list, there would be a cost that would have to be borne. An easier strategy for Delta is to merely have multiple agreements with multiple carriers. This ensures that you as a single pilot group never have enough leverage to do significant damage to Delta's overall structure. As far as controlling you, I never said that nor do I think that. What my pilot group DOES control is the amount of flying that gets subcontracted, and it would appear as if one of those subcontractors is about to become one of us and us one of them. That increases leverage even more on our side of the fence. Feel free to argue, I just suggest that you accept your reality so that you may appear more rationale.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

No doubt that Delta will cease to exist some day. If that happens, circumstances usually exist, as they did with the aforementioned airlines whereas those pilots manage to find decent jobs paying a wage similar to what you are making right now. IOW, the vast majority of those pilots were assimilated, found jobs elsewhere, started successful businesses. We have several of them here at Delta.

Now, here is another no doubt: ASA will be gone some day as well.

Some of us have already been at your job, and we will stay where we are. You want to stay where you are. Fine. Just realize your place in the world, and you be much less bitter.

 

[DTW320]

I did indeed choose not to pursue NWA because financially it wasn't worth it, and as a company organization, it isn't much different from ASA. Bigger airplanes, same clusterf*** management and crappy QOL. I went ahead and interviewed anyhow, though, and had a good time making them squirm with questions about Compass.

Yeah, right....NWA is so bad/screwed up/not worth it that you "went ahead and interviewed anyhow" just so you could make HR folks who are not affected by Compass in any way "squirm".

Sounds like somebody needs a new hobby.

Or could it be that your opinions of NWA were formed AFTER you were turned down in the interview. Gee, I wonder.......

 

[John Pennekamp]

And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.


Not at all. I am quite popular amongst my comrads, which include a broad spectrum of mil, civ, regional, majors, and even non-airline. You just can't seem to accept the fact that the job of ASA is primarily feed. You feed people to larger jets. Comair does the exact same thing, with the exact same jet. So do about 6 other airlines. The amount of work doled out to you and others is directly related to what the Delta pilots negotiate in their contract. Delta pilots negotiate, on a regular basis how much work you get. It is no more or no less than that. Your ego can't seem to understand that you are in a support role. Just because you cannot accept it, does not make it so. No amount of breath holding, blame casting on Delta pilots, topic switching, foot stomping, or fit throwing on flightinfo is going to change that fact.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?


Sure, could happen. If so, skywest pilots would just pick up the slack. BTW, no where did I say that you were insignificant. Feed is VERY significant. Without feed, we don't make money. At the same time, we could provide our own feed. There is nothing contractually against Delta pilots doing 100% of Delta flying. There would also be nothing precluding Delta pilots from actually putting 100% of Delta flying in our contract. You cannot say the same thing.


Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

This is where you are incorrect, and where your inexperience shows. First of all, there is no ever was, any way of legally putting you on our list. Never had to be done legally, probably never will. Compare that to NWA pilots. If the companies merge, they will have to legally be a part of a combined list with us according to our contract. Even if we desired to put you on our list, there would be a cost that would have to be borne. An easier strategy for Delta is to merely have multiple agreements with multiple carriers. This ensures that you as a single pilot group never have enough leverage to do significant damage to Delta's overall structure. As far as controlling you, I never said that nor do I think that. What my pilot group DOES control is the amount of flying that gets subcontracted, and it would appear as if one of those subcontractors is about to become one of us and us one of them. That increases leverage even more on our side of the fence. Feel free to argue, I just suggest that you accept your reality so that you may appear more rationale.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

No doubt that Delta will cease to exist some day. If that happens, circumstances usually exist, as they did with the aforementioned airlines whereas those pilots manage to find decent jobs paying a wage similar to what you are making right now. IOW, the vast majority of those pilots were assimilated, found jobs elsewhere, started successful businesses. We have several of them here at Delta.

Now, here is another no doubt: ASA will be gone some day as well.

Some of us have already been at your job, and we will stay where we are. You want to stay where you are. Fine. Just realize your place in the world, and you be much less bitter.

I accept your apology.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yeah, right....NWA is so bad/screwed up/not worth it that you "went ahead and interviewed anyhow" just so you could make HR folks who are not affected by Compass in any way "squirm".

Sounds like somebody needs a new hobby.

Or could it be that your opinions of NWA were formed AFTER you were turned down in the interview. Gee, I wonder.......

No, I already had it scheduled and figured, "what the hell, interview experience". Besides, I'd never flown a 747 sim before. It was fun. I decided I didn't want to work there when we showed up at NATCO and nobody knew who we were or what was going on. That combined with my adventure I had the night before when I got to the hotel they had told me to go to and found I had no reservation. Same crap at ASA... left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. So yeah, I interviewed them. My attitude was "why should I take a $50,000 pay cut for 4 years to come work for you? Why is your company so great"?

If I seriously wanted the job, I'd have played the interview game and said all the right things. But thanks for the original post. Did you come up with that one all by yourself?

 

[jke406]

If I seriously wanted the job, I'd have played the interview game and said all the right things. But thanks for the original post. Did you come up with that one all by yourself?

if that isn't the most self-serving, deluded rationalization for tanking an interview...whatever lets you sleep at night, man...but don't convince us...convince yourself.

 

[DTW320]

No, I already had it scheduled and figured, "what the hell, interview experience". Besides, I'd never flown a 747 sim before. It was fun. I decided I didn't want to work there when we showed up at NATCO and nobody knew who we were or what was going on. That combined with my adventure I had the night before when I got to the hotel they had told me to go to and found I had no reservation. Same crap at ASA... left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. So yeah, I interviewed them. My attitude was "why should I take a $50,000 pay cut for 4 years to come work for you? Why is your company so great"?

If I seriously wanted the job, I'd have played the interview game and said all the right things. But thanks for the original post. Did you come up with that one all by yourself?

Like I said, time for a new hobby. BTW, $50k paycut for 4 years? Wow. 2nd year A320FO would be about $70K plus 6% B fund plus profit sharing plus performance incentive pay etc. Years 3 and 4 would be more on the 320 or 757. I had no idea that you were making $120k at ASA. By all means then, stay where you are.

 

[xjlifer]

Nothing like a good old "my wanker is bigger than your wanker" internet fight to help with a long layover.

 

[ferlo]

Don't worry, it's just two legacy carriers merging...what could go wrong?

 

[On Your Six]

Don't worry, it's just two legacy carriers merging...what could go wrong?

Sure, there will be inevitable integration issues. That said, at least they are "attempting" a structured approach with the unions, etc. This is very different from the approach taken by USAirways and AWA. We'll see if the result is any different.

I am sure the integration consultants will make a ton of cash regardless...

 

[Schwanker]

Nothing like a good old "my wanker is bigger than your wanker" internet fight to help with a long layover.

Please don't call it a wanker (that's offensive)--call it a Schwanker!

Schwanker

 

[Captain Bubba]

I think he's concerned about the $70000 going to zero for 3 years during the furlough.

 

[PuffDriver]

I accept your apology.

Apology? To a bitter wannabe who failed a NWA interview. I think not. Believe it or not, there are some "career" people stuck at ASA because they have nowhere else to go. Sound familiar? But you go on believing that you "tanked" that interview. Apparently your ego needs it.

I rank you right up there with that tanker guy.

 

[ugasucks]

Been at a Major one year since leaving ASA and 4 things off the top of my head make me know I made the right choice even if I get put on the street for a few years:
1. Got a 1000 dollar check for an alpa grivance that would have never happend at ASA.
2. Can get a day off that I need if I have to, Personal drop on the computer and don't have to talk to a soul. At ASA you had to give a left arm off for something or couldn't swap crap.
3. If for some reason I get sick and lose my medical I get half my pay until I am 60. Not to bad, that will never happen at a ASA
4. Get 11 percent into my 401k on top of my salary and I don't have to do anything out of pocket.

 

[pipe]

Been at a Major one year since leaving ASA and 4 things off the top of my head make me know I made the right choice even if I get put on the street for a few years:
1. Got a 1000 dollar check for an alpa grivance that would have never happend at ASA.
2. Can get a day off that I need if I have to, Personal drop on the computer and don't have to talk to a soul. At ASA you had to give a left arm off for something or couldn't swap crap.
3. If for some reason I get sick and lose my medical I get half my pay until I am 60. Not to bad, that will never happen at a ASA
4. Get 11 percent into my 401k on top of my salary and I don't have to do anything out of pocket.

Another guy screwing up a thread with inconvenient facts. Great.

PIPE

 

[Captain Bubba]

Apology? To a bitter wannabe who failed a NWA interview. I think not. Believe it or not, there are some "career" people stuck at ASA because they have nowhere else to go. Sound familiar?

I wonder how Delta HR is gonna like the guys who failed the Delta interview, but are now at Northwest?