737 Pylt
Um....Floats anyone??
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2003
- Posts
- 3,085
The following exchanges (paraphrased closely) took place between the judge and the company's hired gun, Jack Gallagher, this week in NYC.
They should NOT be interpreted as a sign that the judge favors ALPA's position, but they certainly warmed the heart of the ALPA attendees. Be assured, there were moments when the judge interrupted and shouted down ALPA attorneys, also.
(Italics are attorney. Bold is the judge.)
****************
Following the ALPA motion that the judge disqualify herself based upon her prior remarks, she attempted to explain that she no longer found DL pilot pay "weird" now that she knew it was not $200K across the board.
She attempted to place the "hideous" comment in the context of paying $1M lump sums .... because she believed (and it took a great deal of effort to convince her otherwise) ..... that lump sums came out of DL cash rather than the qualified fund.
Still, as late as Thursday PM, she evinced belief that our plan was not economically viable even when it was first negotiated. She made it clear that she did not blame the pilots .... rather the company accountants who could not see it would break the company. Put the company attorneys in the odd position of defending our plan in order to defend themselves.
Finally upon hearing that a pilot can retire at 50 and begin drawing the annuity immediately as opposed to waiting until age 60, she was outraged. A DL attorney then erroneously informed her that the benefit would be the same 60% of a given FAE, whether the pilot left at 50 or 60. She went nuts. Our attorney did rise to inform her of the early retirement penalties, but it will not be until ALPA R&i experts take the stand that she will (hopefully) be made to understand the theory of actuarial equivalents.
*****************
Upon numerous mentions of pay/benefit levels at other bankrupt airlines
I don't care what other airlines have done. No one else's finances are the same as yours. I don't care what others pay. Delta will pay what it can afford to pay.
*****************
Upon mention of "management flexibility in small a/c (scope relief)
Scope relief .... in other words, get rid of Delta pilots. I know what you want to do.
*****************
Upon mention that certain changes would make the company stronger
You spent 2.5 Billion buying back your own stock
But your honor, that was before Sept 11
It was still a real money loser.
******************
An across the board pay cut (like the one proposed) is particularly unfair to the lowest paid pilots.
But all the other 44,000 employees took a pay cut .....
(interrupting him) I don't find that persuasive. All those folks can move to another job. Pilots cannot. They have one skill set are stuck with you.
Not necessarily, your honor.
Well, you fired 6000 a few years ago and they are not lined up outside your door are they?
******************
I don't understand why Delta is throwing darts at its pilots. You think they are smaller than you, so you can stomp them.
*****************
Upon yet another mention of other airline pay, and of a DL witness who will testify that, based upon market economics, many other professions should be paid more than pilots (optometrists, pharmacists, judges, lawyers)
You keep telling me about other airlines and other pay. Your expert's list is meaningless to me.
******************
Gallagher attempts to read excerpt from Duane Woerth spring speech to show that ALPA is unnecessarily militant and coordinated in fighting management.
(interrupting him) So what? You carry a big stick. Let them carry a big stick. Besides, I don't even know that DL pilots listened to that letter.
*****************
The judge repeatedly brought up, and would not let go of, the fact that DL included 6 or so "non-negotiable" items that must be in any final agreement. These included relief in scope, code share restrictions, minimum block hours, etc. She first asked where the dollar value of such items was to be found.
Your honor, these are not cost issues, they are intended to strengthen our company. They can't be quantified.
(shouting) Don't tell me these aren't economic items. You better figure out how to quantify them. This is $ that will come from the pilots' side of the ledger.
If you code share on AF from JFK to Paris, that is taking money out of DL pilots' pockets.
If you reduce required minimum block hours, you are taking money from DL pilots.
If you remove restrictions on small jets, you are taking money from DL pilots. Why can't DL pilots fly these 79 seat jets?
Your honor, that would not be economically feasible in view of their benefits package.
(shouting him down) You see? Its money. These are certainly economic issues.
Jack makes one last attempt to make his point: your honor, these items are to strengthen the company, and the pilots will have more security in a stronger company.
Don' tell me this is to strengthen DL. A stronger DL means DL gets more money .... and the pilots will get credit for that.
**************
As part of the discussion of these items, the judge did suggest that one could be non-economic .... the "poison pill" clause in the PWA that gives ALPA the right to extend or take a pay raise in the event of a change in control. Attorney explained that an issuance of new stock upon emergence from Chapt 11 could equate to a change in control and trigger this provision.
The judge suggests that the parties simply add language exempting such stock issuance from the items that might trigger the clause, as UsAirways did. Then you could leave the rest of the language alone.
Your honor, that is a fine suggestion and certainly something that Delta is willing to consider in negotiations.
Whereupon, the ALPA lead attorney, Bruce Simon, stood and announced, "Your honor, ALPA has recently made that exact proposal and it has been rejected by the company".
Much shuffling of feet on the company's side of the room.
**************
DL attorney led CFO Bastian through recitation of finances to illustrate how desperately DL needed the full $335M from the pilots. Bastian maintained that ALPA's analysis that DL had not yet taken full advantage of the Letter 46 was flawed .... because "the airline is smaller now, and we cannot save all that was intended in that section of Letter 46.
They gave you the money. Its not the pilots' fault that DL just didn't spend it. The pilots will get credit for that money.
**************
Finally, the last note that I made prior to recess on Thursday:
Your honor, DL must have the total amount we are seeking ....
Well, I am not at all sure such an amount is appropriate in light of the billion dollars the pilots have already given you.
They should NOT be interpreted as a sign that the judge favors ALPA's position, but they certainly warmed the heart of the ALPA attendees. Be assured, there were moments when the judge interrupted and shouted down ALPA attorneys, also.
(Italics are attorney. Bold is the judge.)
****************
Following the ALPA motion that the judge disqualify herself based upon her prior remarks, she attempted to explain that she no longer found DL pilot pay "weird" now that she knew it was not $200K across the board.
She attempted to place the "hideous" comment in the context of paying $1M lump sums .... because she believed (and it took a great deal of effort to convince her otherwise) ..... that lump sums came out of DL cash rather than the qualified fund.
Still, as late as Thursday PM, she evinced belief that our plan was not economically viable even when it was first negotiated. She made it clear that she did not blame the pilots .... rather the company accountants who could not see it would break the company. Put the company attorneys in the odd position of defending our plan in order to defend themselves.
Finally upon hearing that a pilot can retire at 50 and begin drawing the annuity immediately as opposed to waiting until age 60, she was outraged. A DL attorney then erroneously informed her that the benefit would be the same 60% of a given FAE, whether the pilot left at 50 or 60. She went nuts. Our attorney did rise to inform her of the early retirement penalties, but it will not be until ALPA R&i experts take the stand that she will (hopefully) be made to understand the theory of actuarial equivalents.
*****************
Upon numerous mentions of pay/benefit levels at other bankrupt airlines
I don't care what other airlines have done. No one else's finances are the same as yours. I don't care what others pay. Delta will pay what it can afford to pay.
*****************
Upon mention of "management flexibility in small a/c (scope relief)
Scope relief .... in other words, get rid of Delta pilots. I know what you want to do.
*****************
Upon mention that certain changes would make the company stronger
You spent 2.5 Billion buying back your own stock
But your honor, that was before Sept 11
It was still a real money loser.
******************
An across the board pay cut (like the one proposed) is particularly unfair to the lowest paid pilots.
But all the other 44,000 employees took a pay cut .....
(interrupting him) I don't find that persuasive. All those folks can move to another job. Pilots cannot. They have one skill set are stuck with you.
Not necessarily, your honor.
Well, you fired 6000 a few years ago and they are not lined up outside your door are they?
******************
I don't understand why Delta is throwing darts at its pilots. You think they are smaller than you, so you can stomp them.
*****************
Upon yet another mention of other airline pay, and of a DL witness who will testify that, based upon market economics, many other professions should be paid more than pilots (optometrists, pharmacists, judges, lawyers)
You keep telling me about other airlines and other pay. Your expert's list is meaningless to me.
******************
Gallagher attempts to read excerpt from Duane Woerth spring speech to show that ALPA is unnecessarily militant and coordinated in fighting management.
(interrupting him) So what? You carry a big stick. Let them carry a big stick. Besides, I don't even know that DL pilots listened to that letter.
*****************
The judge repeatedly brought up, and would not let go of, the fact that DL included 6 or so "non-negotiable" items that must be in any final agreement. These included relief in scope, code share restrictions, minimum block hours, etc. She first asked where the dollar value of such items was to be found.
Your honor, these are not cost issues, they are intended to strengthen our company. They can't be quantified.
(shouting) Don't tell me these aren't economic items. You better figure out how to quantify them. This is $ that will come from the pilots' side of the ledger.
If you code share on AF from JFK to Paris, that is taking money out of DL pilots' pockets.
If you reduce required minimum block hours, you are taking money from DL pilots.
If you remove restrictions on small jets, you are taking money from DL pilots. Why can't DL pilots fly these 79 seat jets?
Your honor, that would not be economically feasible in view of their benefits package.
(shouting him down) You see? Its money. These are certainly economic issues.
Jack makes one last attempt to make his point: your honor, these items are to strengthen the company, and the pilots will have more security in a stronger company.
Don' tell me this is to strengthen DL. A stronger DL means DL gets more money .... and the pilots will get credit for that.
**************
As part of the discussion of these items, the judge did suggest that one could be non-economic .... the "poison pill" clause in the PWA that gives ALPA the right to extend or take a pay raise in the event of a change in control. Attorney explained that an issuance of new stock upon emergence from Chapt 11 could equate to a change in control and trigger this provision.
The judge suggests that the parties simply add language exempting such stock issuance from the items that might trigger the clause, as UsAirways did. Then you could leave the rest of the language alone.
Your honor, that is a fine suggestion and certainly something that Delta is willing to consider in negotiations.
Whereupon, the ALPA lead attorney, Bruce Simon, stood and announced, "Your honor, ALPA has recently made that exact proposal and it has been rejected by the company".
Much shuffling of feet on the company's side of the room.
**************
DL attorney led CFO Bastian through recitation of finances to illustrate how desperately DL needed the full $335M from the pilots. Bastian maintained that ALPA's analysis that DL had not yet taken full advantage of the Letter 46 was flawed .... because "the airline is smaller now, and we cannot save all that was intended in that section of Letter 46.
They gave you the money. Its not the pilots' fault that DL just didn't spend it. The pilots will get credit for that money.
**************
Finally, the last note that I made prior to recess on Thursday:
Your honor, DL must have the total amount we are seeking ....
Well, I am not at all sure such an amount is appropriate in light of the billion dollars the pilots have already given you.
