CVR for busting pilots?

[rajflyboy]

Why would a court get involved? The pilots could sue for wrongful termination, but on what grounds?

CVR was not put on a airplane for disciplinary reasons. It was put there for safety reasons.

unless its something outrageous like the Pinnacle deal I dont think the jury would go against the employee

 

[GogglesPisano]

CVR was not put on a airplane for disciplinary reasons. It was put there for safety reasons.

unless its something outrageous like the Pinnacle deal I dont think the jury would go against the employee

We're not necessarily talking about juries. We're not necessarily talking about litigation. We're not necessarily talking about an accident/incident. We could be talking about two pilots disparaging their CEO, or one admitting he stole company property. I'm talking about company discipline.

Q: "Can or could a CVR be used to get a pilot in trouble in the United States of America?" Poorly worded. If by "in trouble" you include disciplinary action by the company, then -- why wouldn't it be used? This has nothing to do with the FAA.

As in all things, assume the worst.

 

[brokeflyer]

just assume that after your next landing the cvr will be pulled. that is why you ******************** talk the CEO at the bar 3 blocks from the crew hotel.

 

[CE750Driver]

CVR was not put on a airplane for disciplinary reasons. It was put there for safety reasons.

unless its something outrageous like the Pinnacle deal I dont think the jury would go against the employee

You are making the illogical leap here that the company cannot use the CVR to punish. The FARs do not say that. They say the FAA cannot use it for enforcement action. It would not even end up in court. It is within a companies right to use the info on there as they see fit. It HAS happened and will continue to happen. Case closed.

 

[OPECJet]

Had my CVR pulled at NetJets. No big deal.

 

[BentOver]

Even the most minor of incidents..Say, ingesting FOD on taxi in, bird strike...Or maybe nudging another a/c on the ramp, there is a good likelyhood a company "may" pull the tapes.... When they hear anything other than professional conversation expect to be called on it.. Remember the whole FBO camera debacle last year....

Especially when you've got "current management teams" in place that have little regard for employee relations..Or they hire an "employee relations consultant"!!

 

[rajflyboy]

You are making the illogical leap here that the company cannot use the CVR to punish. The FARs do not say that. They say the FAA cannot use it for enforcement action. It would not even end up in court. It is within a companies right to use the info on there as they see fit. It HAS happened and will continue to happen. Case closed.

Yes it would in some instances. Wrongful termination lawsuit comes to mind.

Show some facts of previous use of cvr and employee's being fired?

 

[BentOver]

I doubt there is any precedence....but the fact that it can happen and is perfectly legal. Unfortunatley when CVR usage comes into play it is too late for the crew and passengers........ Comair in LEX comes to mind...The pilots got plastered in the papers because of their non-aviation discussions.....

It's the companies plane. They can monitor any portion they want...Over stress an engine or operate it outside of it's limitations. Something happens, busted. I've seen that play out with other 121 companies. Maintenance can look up prior a/c data and know when and how a plane was being operated.....Those MFD/PFD's can show alot of maintenance info and trends.....(of course not every type of a/c)

If the company can watch you on a FBO ramp they can certainly pull CVR's.....I guess it would be in the CBA how or in which way a CVR can be used?? But that's only at various companies.

 

[CE750Driver]

Yes it would in some instances. Wrongful termination lawsuit comes to mind.

Show some facts of previous use of cvr and employee's being fired?

I know of a couple instances, that ended up in suspensions and retraining.
If it is on the CVR, with the pilot doing something stupid, wrongful termination would be hard to prove.

That's not the point of this thread anyhow. The Godfather says it is illegal for the company to use that information for discipline. He is wrong, the FAA may not. It is not ILLEGAL for the company to use CVR info. Now, for the decisions they decide to take after hearing them, they are responsible.

If your only defense on a wrongful termination suit is that it is illegal for the company to use that CVR info. You are done.

 

[rajflyboy]

I doubt there is any precedence....but the fact that it can happen and is perfectly legal. Unfortunatley when CVR usage comes into play it is too late for the crew and passengers........ Comair in LEX comes to mind...The pilots got plastered in the papers because of their non-aviation discussions.....

It's the companies plane. They can monitor any portion they want...Over stress an engine or operate it outside of it's limitations. Something happens, busted. I've seen that play out with other 121 companies. Maintenance can look up prior a/c data and know when and how a plane was being operated.....Those MFD/PFD's can show alot of maintenance info and trends.....(of course not every type of a/c)

If the company can watch you on a FBO ramp they can certainly pull CVR's.....I guess it would be in the CBA how or in which way a CVR can be used?? But that's only at various companies.

????????

not if you work for a fractional