Curious

[Diesel]

Wow boys and girls let's take a little look ath what bridgeway is saying and what is actually going on in the real world.

Dsptchr says-

115 to date maybe - the 400-500 figure was by years end. Most of our a/c deliveries won't be until early fall.

1st the UA guys that are coming here that have 15k are the most militant of the group. They have been there and they know how the system works. Sure there are a few ex airline guys coming here but they don't last long. Flew with a guy the other day that was leaving after 4 months here. Just didn't need the crap.

So they have a net of 115 pilots. I believe thats a little on the high side. You should take a look at some of the people that are on the senority list who have left. They are guys and gals that are very senior and very junior. Pretty amazing numbers.

G4- Go ahead and fire me. Oh wait i don't work for you. hahaaaa good laugh though.

 

[dsptchrnja]

1st the UA guys that are coming here that have 15k are the most militant of the group. They have been there and they know how the system works....

So how many UA pilots, hired this year, have you personally met that actaully fit this catagory? I only ask because the subject of their motives actually came up in our conversation and it had nothing to do with pay, unions, or anything political - they "just want to fly."

 

[FLYLOW22]

So how many UA pilots, hired this year, have you personally met that actaully fit this catagory? I only ask because the subject of their motives actually came up in our conversation and it had nothing to do with pay, unions, or anything political - they "just want to fly."

How many? Umm... Let me think... ALL OF THEM!

UAL pilots come from some of the proudest aviator backgrounds on the planet. Legacy Airline pilots (now retired) are not the group to be looking at with the spyglass.

They have, in fact, been some of the most helpful NJA Pilots by either holding the spyglass themselves or offering advice as to hold the spyglass in a better way.

There is NO doubt in my mind that retired airline pilots will go the distance and prove to be some of the best conditioned for this marathon.

If we had hats, my hat would be off to them.

 

[On Your Six]

So how many UA pilots, hired this year, have you personally met that actaully fit this catagory? I only ask because the subject of their motives actually came up in our conversation and it had nothing to do with pay, unions, or anything political - they "just want to fly."

I am former UAL and you bet that I would lead the call if I were there at NJA (I am not). I am very pro-union and you can be sure that I (in addition to my former co-workers) would be involved if given the opportunity.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Six,

Some of the same leadership that ran the Strike at UAL in 1985 are key players in our efforts now. See http://www.fracpilot.com/fromwoodenwings.pdf .

 

[FredGarvin]

Some of the same leadership that ran the Strike at UAL in 1985 are key players in our efforts now.

Wow, I can't wait till we have pay cuts, furloughs, bankruptcy and a really shaky future, just like the big guys.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Wow, I can't wait till we have pay cuts, furloughs, bankruptcy and a really shaky future, just like the big guys.

Fred that's all a management function.

 

[Majik]

Wow, I can't wait till we have pay cuts, furloughs, bankruptcy and a really shaky future, just like the big guys.

Every employee at United (including CEOs) could have worked for free the year preceeding 9/11 and the company would still have lost money. Care to make another false assumption?

 

[100-1/2]

Did someone say, "a 5 year degree in Meteorology from OSU?"

Alright, now everyone must bow to, his "atoritee"!

100-1/2

 

[FredGarvin]

Fred that's all a management function.

Every employee at United (including CEOs) could have worked for free the year preceeding 9/11 and the company would still have lost money.

OK which is it?

Bad, evil non-pilot management:

"The pilots and the Machinists each have seats on the board of directors of United's parent company, UAL Corp., as do salaried employees. Through supermajority voting provisions the two unions have veto authority over major transactions, their directors sit on the board's most important committees, and they effectively select the company's top executives."

or, Nobody could make a profit after 9/11?

see: JetBlue, SWA, NetJets

Can't see how it could be both ways...but then again with my "5 year degree in Meteorology from OSU" I'm not smart enough to program the FMS.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Its very simple Fred. My job is to fly the airplane. Not to make profits. Could not give a rat's a__ about profits.

Hey whats all this about degrees in meteorology? I missed where this started. I know one thing. They LIE!

 

[FredGarvin]

Hey whats all this about degrees in meteorology? I missed where this started. I know one thing. They LIE!

On that, we can agree.

 

[El Chupacabra]

On that, we can agree.

Its either that ... or they don't really know sh!t about weather.

 

[JustInfo]

"Wow, I can't wait till we have pay cuts, furloughs, bankruptcy and a really shaky future, just like the big guys."

We can hope not Fred, but that too is why I hate all the airline comparisons. I also dislike looking at what the "Emery MEC" accomplished there. We have to just hope for better with our shot at all this. One point you make though rings very true - Netjets days of not including the word "furlough" will probably come to an end in the future after all of this. Definitely too far gone from any Southwest style union relationship.

 

[Some Dude]

Fred you want layoffs? How about starting with one of our 60 plus vice-presidents? How about laying off in other departments? We really don't need a weather department or dispatchers. We did just fine without them before. Heck WSI and flight service works just fine for me and it doesn't cost the company anything.

 

[gunfyter]

Dude,

"Do not fall into the management laid trap of pitting employee groups against one another."
- Sun Tsu on Union Busting

Personally, while enroute, I use the flight phone often to talk to our wx guys. Its way better than WSI and the FSS guy who has limited interest in the success of my flight compared to the NetJets WX dudes and dispatchers... who often know about and care about little things like crosswind limits on the X.

We could stand to lose a few dozen VPs though...

 

[Publishers]

You are right El Chup,,,,, we should all just forget about the profits that make all this go at all.

 

[El Chupacabra]

You are right El Chup,,,,, we should all just forget about the profits that make all this go at all.

Dam_ Straight, I am right. We? Who is WE? Its someone else's job to create profits... but they won't do it at my expense anymore....

Mismanagement... it happens all the time... and its the workers who pay for it!

 

[FamilyGuy]

Fred you want layoffs? How about starting with one of our 60 plus vice-presidents? How about laying off in other departments? We really don't need a weather department or dispatchers. We did just fine without them before. Heck WSI and flight service works just fine for me and it doesn't cost the company anything.

We could stand to lose a few dozen VPs though....

I always thought we had too many VPs as well. I didnt think we had 60+ though....

Just to check, I pulled up the company directory on the intranet and looked for anyone with a VP title and found that we did have a total of 61....surprised even me.

But as everyone on this board is fond of pointing out, the devil is in the details....when I looked at company and title it turns out that 21 of the 61 are at EJM, leaving only 40 at NJA. Of the 40 at NJA, 19 are sales vp's....leaving only 21 for operational coverage.

How many of these 21 do you think should be cut? What is an effective span of control for an operation the size of NJA?

As for the sales vp's, everyone here should know that title is a matter of convenience.... how many prospective owners want to talk to just a manager? And if I'm not mistaken, these vp's work on commission...if they dont sell they dont get paid.

As for the EJM numbers, it looks like 12 of the 21 are in a sales role as well....

 

[gunfyter]

We need a VP in charge of paying pilots 90th percentile NBAA wages.