Crosswinds with flaps

[northmountain]

Full flaps/no flaps

As far as light singles such as Pipers and Cessnas here is where most people make a mistake. They add way too much airspeed, float like heck, try to put it on the ground, 3 point it and get all sorts of nasty control issues. SOLUTION: With you and your mut in the aircraft you're flying way, way below max weight. Dang, that 172 stalls in the mid 30s with flaps...and even lower if you are well below MTOW. Heck, now you're approaching at 60-70 knots! Now I gotta bleed off 30 knots of airspeed...float...float...float....problems, problems...

In short, aerodynamics in a very lightly loaded single: it makes no sense to add 10 knots to a plane with zero flaps (assuming we just have a good solid x-wind; not a gusty situation).

 

[A Squared]

IAHERJ,

You seem to think that the comments you have posted should not be subject to comment by other forum readers, particularly ones who don’t fly the ERJ "80 hours a month". That’s an interesting stance, but it begs the question; What exactly is a forum, if participants are not allowed to comment on what has been posted?

Yeah, I haven’t flown the ERJ, haven’t ever flown a jet, probably never will. That’s really not too relevant, as my comments are based entirely on what you have said yourself .... oh, yeah, and on physics which is pretty much the same for the DC-6 and the ERJ and ultralights and the SR-71.

Now, I don’t know what the ERJ’s normal landing speed is, but all we have to do is look at your statement about the landing distance, to wit: " (when landing at 160 kt. touchdown speed) ......... you will need full reverse and brakes to get it stopped in less than 6,000 feet."

All right, let’s think about this. Under Part 121, you won’t be dispatched to any runway on which you can’t come to a full stop using only brakes, no reverse, and still have 40% of the runway left (if you fly the airplane like it’s supposed to be flown). If you’re using full reverse and full brakes to get stopped before the end, you’re doing something seriously wrong.

The question was asked, what are you going to do if the reversers fail? And no, the question was not "answered in his next sentance (sic)". That was part of the question, and you seem to have missed it. His point was that the certification and dispatch criteria is based on brakes only, yet you are advocating an operating technique which in your own words *requires* brakes *and* reverse thrust to get stopped in the available runway. The question still stands; If you need full reverse and brakes to get stopped in less than 6000 ft, what do you do when your reversers fail?

Hey, you’re the one who said: ".......fly the beast pretty fast right down to the #'s" and " .......you will need full reverse and brakes to get it stopped in less than 6,000 feet."


>>>>>The incident in CLE speaks for itself.

Yes, it does. The tragic part is that you’re not hearing what it says. Suffice to say, a pilot who normally computes the correct landing speed for the conditions, including gust factor, and flies that speed, to the best of his ability, all the time, is not going to suddenly find himself touching down 10-20 knots fast, with over 70 % of a contaminated runway already behind him. On the other hand, developing a tolerance for being significantly faster than the performance charts call for and cultivating the habit of throwing a in few extra knots (or 10, or 20)and getting comfortable with using most of a runway which is substantially longer than your minimum may not serve you well some day when things aren’t going well, and localizer antenna is looming large in the windscreen.


regards

 

[metrodriver]

Asquared, well said. I would like to know what normal Vref is on the ERJ max flaps, max landing weight. Touching down at 160?.
For other planes: In cessna's I wouldn't use more or less than 20' for 2 reasons:less would make the airplane float and somewhat more susseptible to turbulence. More than 20 would increase drag to such an extend that the airplane would be slow to respond to increased power in case of gusts/ downdrafts, and the flaps start blanking out the rudder. 20 degrees seemed to give the right combination of drag and controllability. In low wing planes I didn't go beyond 20-25 degrees either (2nd notch in a piper) I got this advice from a 55000 hour pilot (30000 in small planes) and in my 1600 hrs of teaching it worked well. On the metro's and 727 there was one setting: full flaps.