CRJ2 Flaps?

[Captjiggles]

Why do most CRJ2 operators keep their flaps at the take off position while taxiing in and while parked at the gate?

 

[Slice121]

It has/had to do with a flap warping issue on the 200's. Thus, you were required to inspect the flaps in the takeoff setting before takeoff. It can only be done properly on the walk around. There was an AD that cleared this up, but my employer never recinded the procedure even after compliance. I've never seen the problem with almost 1500 in the jet.

 

[CFIT]

Not quite, when the AD came out it did indeed require that the flaps be inspected prior to takeoff. The final fix is when a new system called the skew detection system is installed, if the system is installed then full retraction after landing is required to reset the system for the subsequent takeoff. Many operators have decided to not install the SDS as I believe it costs about $75K per aircraft.

 

[turbinej]

Operaters like pinnacle brought the flaps up after landing. We had a 215 speed limit to bring the flaps down instead of the manufactures 230 kias speed limit. Because our flap speed was reduced we did not have to do the inspection of the flaps like other operator did at the gate.

 

[mynameisjim]

Operaters like pinnacle brought the flaps up after landing. We had a 215 speed limit to bring the flaps down instead of the manufactures 230 kias speed limit. Because our flap speed was reduced we did not have to do the inspection of the flaps like other operator did at the gate.

There must be more to it than just the speed, because AWAC also has the lower speed limit, but has to do the inspection as well.

 

[Captjiggles]

This might be a dumb question................but, what causes the warping? I assume its a speed issue. Does it have anything to do with the flaps being electrical?

 

[atrdriver]

This might be a dumb question................but, what causes the warping? I assume its a speed issue. Does it have anything to do with the flaps being electrical?

It had to do with the flex cable that runs from the motor to the actuators.

 

[bailout]

Each flap has more than one actuator, and one of them was binding causing the flap to twist. Not every RJ was affected, only certain serial numbers that had the faulty part. (or i should say, the production dates of the parts that have failed) You can certainly bring the flaps up after landing if you wanted to, but they had to be in T/O position prior to the next walk around to ensure they didnt twist. Once all the affected aircraft have been "repaired" then the AD will go away, but most carriers arent doing this until they come in for major c checks which could take a few years to get them all done.

 

[ArcticFlier]

If I remember right it was the outboard actuator on the inboard flap that was causing the twisting. Never saw it for real, and I flew it for two plus years before the replacement was made.


AF

 

[mynameisjim]

In my opinion the real problem is not that twisting can occur, it's that the CRJ sensors have no way to detect flap twist. I think it's that lack of detection that is more of a problem then the actual twist issue.

 

[Slice121]

Operaters like pinnacle brought the flaps up after landing. We had a 215 speed limit to bring the flaps down instead of the manufactures 230 kias speed limit. Because our flap speed was reduced we did not have to do the inspection of the flaps like other operator did at the gate.

We had the same 215 limit imposed...interesting that the software was never updated and the redline remains at 230 for flaps 8-20, so no clacker.

 

[LAMESAUCE]

funny how the POH shows a hand similar to this one used to verify the flaps are in the correct position.

 

[sweptback]

We had the same 215 limit imposed...interesting that the software was never updated and the redline remains at 230 for flaps 8-20, so no clacker.

Not only that, but the new airplanes from the factory came with placards stating 230 kts was the flap speeds. Obviously the AD was complied with from the factory.

Within about a month they had the placard with 215 up, along with the "must visually inspect flaps prior to departure" one.

 

[wmuflyguy]

We had the same 215 limit imposed...interesting that the software was never updated and the redline remains at 230 for flaps 8-20, so no clacker.

I always wondered if other people had the same flap limits. cmr has those same limits and we leave the flaps at teh t/o setting at the gate.

 

[finnjl]

The 215 is a Bombardiar thing. They were having problems during the test flights. (IE when the crews where doing certification flights) At 230 they were having flap problems during aircraft testing. I am not sure if they were not extending or what exactly the issue was. So they made it 215 and that took care of the problem. So instead of recertifing the aircraft they limited the flap speed to 215 and all is well. Or at least that is what I was told in training at ASA and I know Pinnacle has the same flap speed.

I know at ASA we used to have to check the inboard to the outboard flap and they needed to be up to do that but I think that procedure is no longer in the POH, I do not know since I do not work there anymore.

 

[Filkster]

Operaters like pinnacle brought the flaps up after landing. We had a 215 speed limit to bring the flaps down instead of the manufactures 230 kias speed limit. Because our flap speed was reduced we did not have to do the inspection of the flaps like other operator did at the gate.

So maybe the fact that pinnacle has new RJ's with the redsigned flaps that eliminate the warping problem might have something to do with it?
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Gee I wonder??

RF

 

[CFIT]

In my opinion the real problem is not that twisting can occur, it's that the CRJ sensors have no way to detect flap twist. I think it's that lack of detection that is more of a problem then the actual twist issue.

Again, that is what the skew detection system does. It basically looks at the rotation of the jack screw actuators at each station, all 8 of them, and if one were to stop rotating (example the flex cable severses between actuators) it shuts down the flap drive unit. You may end up landing without full flaps but hopefully they wont be warped. If the skew detection system is not installed, or is and is MEL'd, the predeparture inspection is required. Installation of the SDS is not required for compliance with the AD, but other inspection and maintenance is required if it is not. SkyWest airlines has installed the SDS in all of the aircraft primarily because of flap retraction problems after taxiing through slush and snow.