Crewmember Criticism!!!!

[Ameriagle]

I recently found myself on the recieving end of some personal criticism and would like to get some feedback from others. First of all criticism, in my opinion, can be a very good thing. I am not particularly sensitive to it. In many cases it is something we can learn from, after all I strive to be the best crewmember I can be and any learning experience is usually good. In this case, however I was really bothered by it!

It was obvious early in the month that the Captain and myself share a different outlook on life....not a lot of common ground in general. No problem. Doesn't exactly make for stimulating conversation enroute....but oh well! None the less we are professionals and we do are jobs. Still a perfectly pleasant and civil cockpit........apparently!

This morning however, after finishing my trip I am in the crewroom waiting on my flight home when I overhear the Captain I've been flying with start flaming me and my character to a couple of her crewmember buddies not knowing that I happened to be standing behind them. I was appalled. No doubt the most disappointing moment in my aviation career. I work hard to do the best job that I can and take what I do very seriously. I am always very receptive to feedback from my fellow crewmembers positive and negative and look at it as a way to get better at what I am doing. Whats really upsetting is that this Captain feels that instead of offering me feedback and making me aware of the situation she would rather smear my good name in the crewroom. Completely disrespectful and truely the most unprofessional conduct I have ever witnessed in my relatively short (3 years) time in the airline business.

So what to do? One more trip to fly together and I am inclined to bring my displeasure to her attention.....in a professional and tactful manner of course! Would it be more appropriate to address the issue through professional standards or a talk with the CP? Or should I let it go as basically a non issue? I am on probation and I definately don't want to walk into a hornets nest either. All feedback is helpful, thanks.

 

[AWACoff]

Do NOT go to the CP before exhausting all your options within the union (ProStan, etc.). I, personally, would confront her in a non-confrontational manner. Easy...that's not contradictory. Simply ask her for a critique on areas she believes you can improve upon. After she opens up (IF she does), you can more easily bring to her attention your displeasure at her talking about you "behind" you back. If that fails, use the resources your union has provided.

 

[Long-Gonner]

I would leave it alone for now, like you said "one more trip to fly". When I asked a 30+ yr airline pilot about the same situation, "what to do when you just can't get along", his advice to me was "just be the FO" and let the other person "be the captain". Someday you will be the captain and you will need to remember this month as how you DON'T want YOUR cockpit to be. As a probationary pilot I wouldn't make any waves with the CP, but if you know someone in the union that you feel comfortable talking too, then maybe you should vent a little between now and when your next trip starts. I don't think the fact that the captain is a woman has anything to do with it, some people just don't get along. Another possibility is that maybe you are the a$$hole, not her, and you should lighten up a little. I don't know you or her, but it does take two to make the darn thing fly. Good luck.

 

[WhiteCloud]

This morning however, after finishing my trip I am in the crewroom waiting on my flight home when I overhear the Captain I've been flying with start flaming me and my character to a couple of her crewmember buddies not knowing that I happened to be standing behind them. Whats really upsetting is that this Captain feels that instead of offering me feedback and making me aware of the situation she would rather smear my good name in the crewroom. Completely disrespectful and truely the most unprofessional conduct I have ever witnessed in my relatively short (3 years) time in the airline business.

So what to do? One more trip to fly together and I am inclined to bring my displeasure to her attention.....in a professional and tactful manner of course!

I wouldn't pester higher ups with something like this but it really should be addressed. How about saying something like..."It's come to my attention that you are saying X in the crew room about me. I'll try to do a good job for you as your FO but could you come to me first next time there is a problem so I can fix it? At the very least Captain Bigmouth will wonder which of her "friends" told you about it.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Don't worry yourself. Most women pilots I have come in contact with are terribly insecure. They are in this business to compete with men, and putting you down is her way of proving that she is superior. Just wait til you upgrade, and run your cockpit like a pro. Personal insults show weakness on the her part. B@#ch!

 

[100LL... Again!]

I don't know if I could resist having a little fun.

Something along the lines of:

"When you're publicly smearing my character please do it where I can't hear it. My sef-image can't take the strain."

Then laugh. Guaranteed red face on her part.

Probably, though, ziggy's idea is best.

Let her wonder who squealed. Paranoia will shut the 'ol mouth pretty quick.

 

[eddie]

I would talk to her, that way you don't have to dread the idea of being stuck with her on another bid. You'll at least know what to expect, and worst case, be ready to put your trips into opentime.

 

[General Lee]

I'd tell her that you did over hear her and then say that you will try to be a professional FO and do your best as a crew member. She will probably be embarrassed and be nice to you throughout the rest of the trip. Then, I would try to put her on a "Do Not Fly With List" if your company has one---usually for FO's only.

If none of that works and she treats you poorly, as long as you are off probabtion, I would critique her on everything she does and say, "Sheesh, I have never seen a Captain do that!!" If she has a rough landing, I would ask, "And you make how much more than I do?" Or ask, 'When did you upgrade again?" If it gets intollerable, just go to the Chief Pilot's office and say you are uncomfortable flying with her. She will be embarrassed and probably think she is on the "watch list." Good Luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[dogman]

I would definately keep it professional in the cockpit, but I would confront this person and tell them what you heard. You are a person too! Stand up for yourself.

 

[DesertFalcon]

As a Crewmember, with a small company, we had a pilot who thought he knew everything in the cockpit.

On several occasions I expressed my concerns to this person; they needed to know their attitude was inhibiting my function as a crewmember.

This persons reputation was not respected within the company; His/Her attitude about themselves, was far above the actual reality of their performance.

Most professional crewmembers will listen and try to get along with their fellow employess. Unfortunately, there are many immature individuals whos personal ego is more important than their cockpit relationships. This also applies to management, in some situations.

Politics in the airlines industry is a fact of life. The favorites can do no wrong, even if they are wrong! You know the situation; Everyone in this forum has experienced the prejudice of favoritism.

If, safety becomes an issue you have no choice but to change things, If not, then hang in there and grit your teeth till things change over time.

Good Luck.... I know how hard it can be.

I recently found myself on the recieving end of some personal criticism and would like to get some feedback from others. First of all criticism, in my opinion, can be a very good thing. I am not particularly sensitive to it. In many cases it is something we can learn from, after all I strive to be the best crewmember I can be and any learning experience is usually good. In this case, however I was really bothered by it!

 

[mckpickle]

Let us know what happens!

 

[AirBoard]

Hey Ameriagle,

The exact same thing happend to me last month. Out of nowhere the FA came to me and told me how the CA was bad mouthing my flying in the crew room to another CA. He didn;t mention my name in the conversation probably cause the other CA didnt ask it. Nevertheless I was dumbfounded and pissed!

We had a de-brief on a earlier pairing but sorted it out. Then the next pairing starts and I get this crewroom gosip - you can criticze my personality but if you have a problem with my flying it's in both of our best interest and SAFETY to discuss it.

I steamed on down to the aircraft, a million things I wanted to say. In fact I decided he could fly every leg since I obviously had problems. After the pre flight you could cut the tention in the cockpit with a knife.

I got my wits up and confronted the issue. I used CRM and was diplomatic - basically I told him if he has a problem with my flying he needs to tell me and not others. We can always do a better job but need constructive criticism to achieve this. I'm in no position to fly if I know I don't have the respect of the person sitting next to me - it's uncomfortable, stressful and more importantly, UNSAFE.

Although I know I was the responsible one in this situation I didn't try to make the CA aware of this fact. Since I had never had any problems in 3 years I knew it was him and not me that had the problems. Nevertheless, our discussion worked out, we broke the ice and ended the month very amicably.

Good Luck.

 

[Ameriagle]

Thanks everyone for weighing in and offering your feedback. It has been extremely helpful. I like the idea of getting it out in the open in the form of a question. What can I do to make myself a better First Officer? Any specific recommendations or CRITICISMS? Hopefully that will get any issue she may have out into the open. If I choose my words carefully I think I can make subtle references to her crewroom conversation. Let her know that I am aware of what was said but in a subtle, non threatening way. I think she is insecure enough that if I question her directly it will just put her on the defensive and accomplish exactly nothing. If anything it may make the situation worse.

As I look at the type of Captain I would like to be in the future I have been exposed to a shining example of exactly what I DONT want to be. I can finish my last trip with respect for the position she is in as Captain. I have absolutely no reason to believe that we cannot share a cockpit and get the job done in a safe and civil(civil yes...professional no-I don't consider her one) manner. I have absolutely no respect for this individual and doubt my opinion of her can ever be repaired. Thanks everyone for the feedback I will post again when I finish my trip. Blue Skies!

 

[N2264J]

say what?

If none of that works and she treats you poorly, as long as you are off probabtion, I would critique her on everything she does and say, "Sheesh, I have never seen a Captain do that!!" If she has a rough landing, I would ask, "And you make how much more than I do?" Or ask, 'When did you upgrade again?" If it gets intollerable, just go to the Chief Pilot's office and say you are uncomfortable flying with her. She will be embarrassed and probably think she is on the "watch list."

I hope you understand that General Lee is joking here. None of this is good advice.

Whatever you do, don't go the Chief Pilot's office first. This is what Professional Standards is for. They are the marriage counselors of the pilot group and probably the most underrated committee in the union.

 

[bailout]

Everyone here is assuming you did something wrong, or 'needed' to be criticised in the first place. Are you sure its not just the capt who has issues and you did nothing wrong? This has happened to me once, and I let him fly every leg. This guy was freaking out when "according to the POH, we are supposed to descend at a 3 degree path enroute. Coming in to the terminal area, we get 1-2 step downs 2-3 thousand feet at a time. So instead of coming down at 3000 FPM (or so) I usually come down at 1000-1500 FPM so the passengers dont get a roller coaster ride. He FREAKED!! I heard him bad mouthing me to one of his buddies, that I know, a few days later. I asked the mutual friend what he said, he just laughed and said, don't worry, everyone knows hes a jerk!
Dont sweat it........

 

[PacoPollo]

Confront her. Fly by the SOP.AND DONT put out with anyones crap.

 

[spike]

paco pollo

in america the saying is 'don't put UP with anyone's crap' You must not have read that he is on probabtion and is probably weighing the in the current state of the airline hiring in his decision.

I would like to get more info about what specifically she was criticizing.

Good post, good luck.

 

[T-Gates]

Confront Her.....

I would confornt her to see her reaction, then talk to Pro Standards. Most of the time when you confront someone who has been talking behind your back and you confront them as a professional, watching the major backpeddling is amazing.

Good Luck,

--03M

 

[Brother Francis]

Liberal response: Let it go

Conservative response: Suck it up

The end result is the same. Don't be such a wuss.

 

[Heavy_D_Driver]

I've Heard Of This Before

I've heard of this sort of thing before, and someone once described this situation as a case of "Penis Envy." What is "penis envy" you ask? Those that weren't born with them wish that they were, and feel the need to prove themselves to be better than those of us that do have them.

 

[B190Captain]

Best advice, suck it up and move on. No need to rock the boat on something like this. Who knows what the other pilot she was talking to was saying in his mind. "What is this b*tch talking about?"

 

[Ameriagle]

Several of your post have implied that the criticism may have been justified and maybe I have an issue that warrented the harsh talk. Perhaps you are right.....maybe I do! Believe me, I have thought a lot about what was said in the past couple of days and in this case I would look at it as food for thought but likely would not have changed my actions which drew the criticism. BUT that was not the point of the original post. The point is....let me know if you have a problem with me and we will get to the heart of it. Maybe I am an a$$hole and need to be called on it! In this case that would be valuable information for me to know.......not our peers (nothing more than a shameful attack of me!)

As for the criticism it was centered on what she percieves as my "poor attitude." None of the criticism that I heard had anything to do with my performance in the cockpit. Specific references were made to my treatment of the hotel van driver. In this case a van driver that has been late most every night all month including a night where we stood on the curve for fifteen minutes so he could stop for an ice cream cone! Ironcially I did not have a single harsh word for the van driver though I was frustrated. I merely did not and have not paid him a tip! This, so I have learned, is a poor reflection of our airline and the profession in general. Other issues include my unwillingness to carry her crewbag down the airstair...a courtesy afforded her by other First Officers. For the record when I complete my postflight I generally bring any remaining bags down the stairs...if anything it gets us on our way that much quicker. I did this for her at the first of the month as well. I did not get a thank you but several references to my obligations as the junior crewmember! My attitude and response has been......that is fine if you feel that way. In the meantime you can carry your own darn bag down the stairs. I did not actually say that however, I just let her take care of her own stuff. Another sign of disrespect I have come to learn! Again, I am not so concerned about the criticism nor really what other crewmembers might think, in this case, I am concerned about her effort to smear my character when I should have been the first one to know.

As for my poor attitude I feel like I could not have a better attitude about things. I am not one to take for granted that I work for a great airline, flying a nice airplane, in a time when that is very hard to come by. I come to work everyday happy to be there and in general have always enjoyed the folks that I fly with. I have really been looking at myself in trying to come to some kind of conclusion as to why I find myself in this position. I really think it is just a big difference in personalities in this case. I tend to be a bit of an introvert.....a bit on the quite side. Usually I take a bit of time to open up with people.....just the way I have always been! I have sensed insecurities in the Captian in question, and think that because I'm quite she thinks it's her! He doesn't like flying with women? He doesn't like the way I do my job? Etc., Etc., None of that would have been true but maybe her opinion of me has been built on those types of assumptions. In that case the problem in not me but her!

 

[PacoPollo]

Re: paco pollo

in america the saying is 'don't put UP with anyone's crap' You must not have read that he is on probabtion and is probably weighing the in the current state of the airline hiring in his decision.

I would like to get more info about what specifically she was criticizing.

Good post, good luck.

Screw ya pall

 

[Gulfstream 200]

next time you run into her few "buddies" to whom she was bashing you....just tell them you nailed her on an overnight and put out the word that her pu$$y stinks like rotten fish.

 

[tacojet]

I'd just bag sick on the trip

 

[bobbysamd]

Backstabbing captain

I understand how you feel; if I would have had the good fortune to be hired I would have busted my ass as hard as possible to please everyone! It would have hurt me greatly, too, to receive that knife in my back. It's too bad, though, that this captain didn't notice you in the crew room before she opened her yap. For all you know, her colleagues might have spotted you and told her afterward.

I find this to be ironic. Here we are, coached by Kit, Irv Jasinski, and Cheryl Cage, too, I'm sure, to come across at the interview as friendly, easygoing, affable people. It makes you wonder if it is all an act; if so, some of these assholes are worthy of Academy Awards.

Having mounted my soapbox briefly, my $0.02 advice is you have to be practical and pragmatic. In other words, although it may tough, you must let it go. I skimmed through the posts and gathered somehow that you are on probation. If so, my advice goes double (for $0.04). The worse thing you can do is bring it up to a higher-up or even someone in the union. So, for at least the short term, you need to stifle yourself. Kill her with kindness. Be nice to the gal. You could risk a write-up if you don't, which would be the last thing you need. My mother always told me that when her boss gave her sh!t that she always responded by thanking him for telling her whatever.

Just a point of clarification: Do all captains expect the FO to be their bag caddy? If so, then you have to put up with it.

Hope that helps. Have a good last trip.

 

[CounterGirl]

Props to you for not handling her crewbag--it's a courtesy she no longer deserves if she's going to be condescending. Pulling the 'I'm female so give me special treatment' card isn't cool! And badmouthing you because you didn't tip a driver that clearly didn't deserve a tip is a complete lack of tact on your captain's part. You, on the other hand, obviously have principles!

I would confront her directly--it sounds like her head is a little too thick to get any subtle hints. You don't have to say how you know she badmouthed you (like others have already said, the mystery may help keep her mouth in check), but maybe giving her some explanation about your actions and personalty will bridge the gap that she previously filled with her incorrect assumptions. You never know, when approached correctly these situtations can turn into great learning experiences, and it sounds like she needs one of those (who knows how many other FO's she's done this to and no one has the guts to say anything?)!

Hope it's a friendly outcome.

CG

 

[GCD]

I would like to take time to address what Bobbysamd mentioned. Yes, applicants ARE great pretenders. If you want proof, just look at some of the flaming that goes on this site. Are we all great professionals when we log onto this site without using our real names? Of course not. That is exactly the type of professionalism the captain in this case has exhibited. She forgot that her first officer is a living breathing human being, as many low-time new captains do. How dare he be in the same room with her while she was holding court?

They do this because they made captain, and the hell with everyone else. It all about ME right? It's the attitude that, "I made it and you haven't, so you have to worship me, and you are just one of the little people." Crap! I've made captain from first officer so many times in my career, I can't even remember. Hell, I'm happy to have a sharp young man or woman with me to keep my ass straight. Any time you fly with me and it is your leg, you are the acting captain. I just sign the paper work.

A lot of people on this site reflect where the industry has turned, and will continue to turn if we all don't start acting civilly and professionally in public and anonymously.

Now, I had a similar thing happen some years ago. As a former grunt before flight school, I am some times plain spoken and to the point. I sent word back to the captain in qusetion that the next time I heard he was talking bad about me, I would cut his nuts off and stuff them down his throat. He believed me, as he well should have. We got along very well afterwards. Of course, I don't know what you could do to this captain in question. The times have changed, and besides, she doesn't have that equipment.

Don't go to the CP. That's being a whiny baby. It's not a pro standards issue unless she is doing something all fouled up in flight. It's a personal issue. You are going to have to work aroud her or with her. It's your choice.

Personally, I would'nt give her the satifaction that she flamed my ass and got away with it. That's just me, though. You need to tread lightly, as she seems to be the type to pull the sexist card, and you are on probation. You can still confront her without acting mad or harsh. Just politely tell her that you overheard her and you felt badly that you may have done something to offend her. You can kill her with bullcrap and have it smell like roses. This way she doesn't have the satifaction of getting away with her crap.

Gregg

 

[Singlecoil]

I have to agree with GCD and Bobby. Don't go to the union or the Chief Pilot. In either case your name will eventually come up, so you might as well speak to her directly. But I don't think I would do that either if you are on probation.

Something tells me that this captain does not possess a lot of natural flying ability. For some reason it seems like those are always the ones that are jerks to fly with. They have been chewed out or counseled in their past and finding someone they can ride a little makes them feel a lot better about themselves.

If you are on probation, my advice would be to grin and bear it for now. Reputation does mean a lot in this business, so it is very understandable to be pi$$ed off, but its not like she went to a Check Airman or Chief Pilot. You will have a lot of opportunities to prove to everyone that you are a good pilot and good crewmember so people will forget about what she said. It will take them longer to forget if you make a big deal about it now. Like someone else said, she probably doensn't get along with other people too and will likely be ignored.

 

[rightrudder]

If all this captain did was bad mouth you about not tipping the van driver and not carrying her bag down the stairs, forget about it! This is hardly the sort of thing to get your feelings hurt over. The folks she was bitching to will know it is a BS issue.

This captain may not be insecure, maybe she just doesn't like you. There are probably male pilots you have flown with that don't like you as well. Hell, i'm sure there are folks who I have flown with who don't like me, male or female. Not everyone will like you in life, and you just need to deal with it.

On another note, it's pretty sad the few folks here who have jumped on this and made criticisms of the captain based on her gender.

"Most women pilots I have come in contact with are terribly insecure. They are in this business to compete with men, and putting you down is her way of proving that she is superior."

"I've heard of this sort of thing before, and someone once described this situation as a case of "Penis Envy." What is "penis envy" you ask? Those that weren't born with them wish that they were, and feel the need to prove themselves to be better than those of us that do have them."

"next time you run into her few "buddies" to whom she was bashing you....just tell them you nailed her on an overnight and put out the word that her pu$$y stinks like rotten fish."

Grow up guys. There are plenty of jerks out there, male or female. Just cause someone who acts like a jerk is female, you don't need to use it as fodder for sexist remarks.