B190Captain
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Crewmember Criticism!!!!
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Several of your post have implied that the criticism may have been justified and maybe I have an issue that warrented the harsh talk. Perhaps you are right.....maybe I do! Believe me, I have thought a lot about what was said in the past couple of days and in this case I would look at it as food for thought but likely would not have changed my actions which drew the criticism. BUT that was not the point of the original post. The point is....let me know if you have a problem with me and we will get to the heart of it. Maybe I am an a$$hole and need to be called on it! In this case that would be valuable information for me to know.......not our peers (nothing more than a shameful attack of me!)
As for the criticism it was centered on what she percieves as my "poor attitude." None of the criticism that I heard had anything to do with my performance in the cockpit. Specific references were made to my treatment of the hotel van driver. In this case a van driver that has been late most every night all month including a night where we stood on the curve for fifteen minutes so he could stop for an ice cream cone! Ironcially I did not have a single harsh word for the van driver though I was frustrated. I merely did not and have not paid him a tip! This, so I have learned, is a poor reflection of our airline and the profession in general. Other issues include my unwillingness to carry her crewbag down the airstair...a courtesy afforded her by other First Officers. For the record when I complete my postflight I generally bring any remaining bags down the stairs...if anything it gets us on our way that much quicker. I did this for her at the first of the month as well. I did not get a thank you but several references to my obligations as the junior crewmember! My attitude and response has been......that is fine if you feel that way. In the meantime you can carry your own darn bag down the stairs. I did not actually say that however, I just let her take care of her own stuff. Another sign of disrespect I have come to learn! Again, I am not so concerned about the criticism nor really what other crewmembers might think, in this case, I am concerned about her effort to smear my character when I should have been the first one to know.
As for my poor attitude I feel like I could not have a better attitude about things. I am not one to take for granted that I work for a great airline, flying a nice airplane, in a time when that is very hard to come by. I come to work everyday happy to be there and in general have always enjoyed the folks that I fly with. I have really been looking at myself in trying to come to some kind of conclusion as to why I find myself in this position. I really think it is just a big difference in personalities in this case. I tend to be a bit of an introvert.....a bit on the quite side. Usually I take a bit of time to open up with people.....just the way I have always been! I have sensed insecurities in the Captian in question, and think that because I'm quite she thinks it's her! He doesn't like flying with women? He doesn't like the way I do my job? Etc., Etc., None of that would have been true but maybe her opinion of me has been built on those types of assumptions. In that case the problem in not me but her!
As for the criticism it was centered on what she percieves as my "poor attitude." None of the criticism that I heard had anything to do with my performance in the cockpit. Specific references were made to my treatment of the hotel van driver. In this case a van driver that has been late most every night all month including a night where we stood on the curve for fifteen minutes so he could stop for an ice cream cone! Ironcially I did not have a single harsh word for the van driver though I was frustrated. I merely did not and have not paid him a tip! This, so I have learned, is a poor reflection of our airline and the profession in general. Other issues include my unwillingness to carry her crewbag down the airstair...a courtesy afforded her by other First Officers. For the record when I complete my postflight I generally bring any remaining bags down the stairs...if anything it gets us on our way that much quicker. I did this for her at the first of the month as well. I did not get a thank you but several references to my obligations as the junior crewmember! My attitude and response has been......that is fine if you feel that way. In the meantime you can carry your own darn bag down the stairs. I did not actually say that however, I just let her take care of her own stuff. Another sign of disrespect I have come to learn! Again, I am not so concerned about the criticism nor really what other crewmembers might think, in this case, I am concerned about her effort to smear my character when I should have been the first one to know.
As for my poor attitude I feel like I could not have a better attitude about things. I am not one to take for granted that I work for a great airline, flying a nice airplane, in a time when that is very hard to come by. I come to work everyday happy to be there and in general have always enjoyed the folks that I fly with. I have really been looking at myself in trying to come to some kind of conclusion as to why I find myself in this position. I really think it is just a big difference in personalities in this case. I tend to be a bit of an introvert.....a bit on the quite side. Usually I take a bit of time to open up with people.....just the way I have always been! I have sensed insecurities in the Captian in question, and think that because I'm quite she thinks it's her! He doesn't like flying with women? He doesn't like the way I do my job? Etc., Etc., None of that would have been true but maybe her opinion of me has been built on those types of assumptions. In that case the problem in not me but her!
Gulfstream 200
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bobbysamd
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Backstabbing captain
I understand how you feel; if I would have had the good fortune to be hired I would have busted my ass as hard as possible to please everyone! It would have hurt me greatly, too, to receive that knife in my back. It's too bad, though, that this captain didn't notice you in the crew room before she opened her yap. For all you know, her colleagues might have spotted you and told her afterward.
I find this to be ironic. Here we are, coached by Kit, Irv Jasinski, and Cheryl Cage, too, I'm sure, to come across at the interview as friendly, easygoing, affable people. It makes you wonder if it is all an act; if so, some of these assholes are worthy of Academy Awards.
Having mounted my soapbox briefly, my $0.02 advice is you have to be practical and pragmatic. In other words, although it may tough, you must let it go. I skimmed through the posts and gathered somehow that you are on probation. If so, my advice goes double (for $0.04). The worse thing you can do is bring it up to a higher-up or even someone in the union. So, for at least the short term, you need to stifle yourself. Kill her with kindness. Be nice to the gal. You could risk a write-up if you don't, which would be the last thing you need. My mother always told me that when her boss gave her sh!t that she always responded by thanking him for telling her whatever.
Just a point of clarification: Do all captains expect the FO to be their bag caddy? If so, then you have to put up with it.
Hope that helps. Have a good last trip.
I understand how you feel; if I would have had the good fortune to be hired I would have busted my ass as hard as possible to please everyone! It would have hurt me greatly, too, to receive that knife in my back. It's too bad, though, that this captain didn't notice you in the crew room before she opened her yap. For all you know, her colleagues might have spotted you and told her afterward.
I find this to be ironic. Here we are, coached by Kit, Irv Jasinski, and Cheryl Cage, too, I'm sure, to come across at the interview as friendly, easygoing, affable people. It makes you wonder if it is all an act; if so, some of these assholes are worthy of Academy Awards.
Having mounted my soapbox briefly, my $0.02 advice is you have to be practical and pragmatic. In other words, although it may tough, you must let it go. I skimmed through the posts and gathered somehow that you are on probation. If so, my advice goes double (for $0.04). The worse thing you can do is bring it up to a higher-up or even someone in the union. So, for at least the short term, you need to stifle yourself. Kill her with kindness. Be nice to the gal. You could risk a write-up if you don't, which would be the last thing you need. My mother always told me that when her boss gave her sh!t that she always responded by thanking him for telling her whatever.
Just a point of clarification: Do all captains expect the FO to be their bag caddy? If so, then you have to put up with it.
Hope that helps. Have a good last trip.
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CounterGirl
Go CATS!
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Props to you for not handling her crewbag--it's a courtesy she no longer deserves if she's going to be condescending. Pulling the 'I'm female so give me special treatment' card isn't cool! And badmouthing you because you didn't tip a driver that clearly didn't deserve a tip is a complete lack of tact on your captain's part. You, on the other hand, obviously have principles!
I would confront her directly--it sounds like her head is a little too thick to get any subtle hints. You don't have to say how you know she badmouthed you (like others have already said, the mystery may help keep her mouth in check), but maybe giving her some explanation about your actions and personalty will bridge the gap that she previously filled with her incorrect assumptions. You never know, when approached correctly these situtations can turn into great learning experiences, and it sounds like she needs one of those (who knows how many other FO's she's done this to and no one has the guts to say anything?)!
Hope it's a friendly outcome.
CG
I would confront her directly--it sounds like her head is a little too thick to get any subtle hints. You don't have to say how you know she badmouthed you (like others have already said, the mystery may help keep her mouth in check), but maybe giving her some explanation about your actions and personalty will bridge the gap that she previously filled with her incorrect assumptions. You never know, when approached correctly these situtations can turn into great learning experiences, and it sounds like she needs one of those (who knows how many other FO's she's done this to and no one has the guts to say anything?)!
Hope it's a friendly outcome.
CG
I would like to take time to address what Bobbysamd mentioned. Yes, applicants ARE great pretenders. If you want proof, just look at some of the flaming that goes on this site. Are we all great professionals when we log onto this site without using our real names? Of course not. That is exactly the type of professionalism the captain in this case has exhibited. She forgot that her first officer is a living breathing human being, as many low-time new captains do. How dare he be in the same room with her while she was holding court?
They do this because they made captain, and the hell with everyone else. It all about ME right? It's the attitude that, "I made it and you haven't, so you have to worship me, and you are just one of the little people." Crap! I've made captain from first officer so many times in my career, I can't even remember. Hell, I'm happy to have a sharp young man or woman with me to keep my ass straight. Any time you fly with me and it is your leg, you are the acting captain. I just sign the paper work.
A lot of people on this site reflect where the industry has turned, and will continue to turn if we all don't start acting civilly and professionally in public and anonymously.
Now, I had a similar thing happen some years ago. As a former grunt before flight school, I am some times plain spoken and to the point. I sent word back to the captain in qusetion that the next time I heard he was talking bad about me, I would cut his nuts off and stuff them down his throat. He believed me, as he well should have. We got along very well afterwards. Of course, I don't know what you could do to this captain in question. The times have changed, and besides, she doesn't have that equipment.
Don't go to the CP. That's being a whiny baby. It's not a pro standards issue unless she is doing something all fouled up in flight. It's a personal issue. You are going to have to work aroud her or with her. It's your choice.
Personally, I would'nt give her the satifaction that she flamed my ass and got away with it. That's just me, though. You need to tread lightly, as she seems to be the type to pull the sexist card, and you are on probation. You can still confront her without acting mad or harsh. Just politely tell her that you overheard her and you felt badly that you may have done something to offend her. You can kill her with bullcrap and have it smell like roses. This way she doesn't have the satifaction of getting away with her crap.
Gregg
They do this because they made captain, and the hell with everyone else. It all about ME right? It's the attitude that, "I made it and you haven't, so you have to worship me, and you are just one of the little people." Crap! I've made captain from first officer so many times in my career, I can't even remember. Hell, I'm happy to have a sharp young man or woman with me to keep my ass straight. Any time you fly with me and it is your leg, you are the acting captain. I just sign the paper work.
A lot of people on this site reflect where the industry has turned, and will continue to turn if we all don't start acting civilly and professionally in public and anonymously.
Now, I had a similar thing happen some years ago. As a former grunt before flight school, I am some times plain spoken and to the point. I sent word back to the captain in qusetion that the next time I heard he was talking bad about me, I would cut his nuts off and stuff them down his throat. He believed me, as he well should have. We got along very well afterwards. Of course, I don't know what you could do to this captain in question. The times have changed, and besides, she doesn't have that equipment.
Don't go to the CP. That's being a whiny baby. It's not a pro standards issue unless she is doing something all fouled up in flight. It's a personal issue. You are going to have to work aroud her or with her. It's your choice.
Personally, I would'nt give her the satifaction that she flamed my ass and got away with it. That's just me, though. You need to tread lightly, as she seems to be the type to pull the sexist card, and you are on probation. You can still confront her without acting mad or harsh. Just politely tell her that you overheard her and you felt badly that you may have done something to offend her. You can kill her with bullcrap and have it smell like roses. This way she doesn't have the satifaction of getting away with her crap.
Gregg
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Singlecoil
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I have to agree with GCD and Bobby. Don't go to the union or the Chief Pilot. In either case your name will eventually come up, so you might as well speak to her directly. But I don't think I would do that either if you are on probation.
Something tells me that this captain does not possess a lot of natural flying ability. For some reason it seems like those are always the ones that are jerks to fly with. They have been chewed out or counseled in their past and finding someone they can ride a little makes them feel a lot better about themselves.
If you are on probation, my advice would be to grin and bear it for now. Reputation does mean a lot in this business, so it is very understandable to be pi$$ed off, but its not like she went to a Check Airman or Chief Pilot. You will have a lot of opportunities to prove to everyone that you are a good pilot and good crewmember so people will forget about what she said. It will take them longer to forget if you make a big deal about it now. Like someone else said, she probably doensn't get along with other people too and will likely be ignored.
Something tells me that this captain does not possess a lot of natural flying ability. For some reason it seems like those are always the ones that are jerks to fly with. They have been chewed out or counseled in their past and finding someone they can ride a little makes them feel a lot better about themselves.
If you are on probation, my advice would be to grin and bear it for now. Reputation does mean a lot in this business, so it is very understandable to be pi$$ed off, but its not like she went to a Check Airman or Chief Pilot. You will have a lot of opportunities to prove to everyone that you are a good pilot and good crewmember so people will forget about what she said. It will take them longer to forget if you make a big deal about it now. Like someone else said, she probably doensn't get along with other people too and will likely be ignored.
rightrudder
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If all this captain did was bad mouth you about not tipping the van driver and not carrying her bag down the stairs, forget about it! This is hardly the sort of thing to get your feelings hurt over. The folks she was bitching to will know it is a BS issue.
This captain may not be insecure, maybe she just doesn't like you. There are probably male pilots you have flown with that don't like you as well. Hell, i'm sure there are folks who I have flown with who don't like me, male or female. Not everyone will like you in life, and you just need to deal with it.
On another note, it's pretty sad the few folks here who have jumped on this and made criticisms of the captain based on her gender.
"Most women pilots I have come in contact with are terribly insecure. They are in this business to compete with men, and putting you down is her way of proving that she is superior."
"I've heard of this sort of thing before, and someone once described this situation as a case of "Penis Envy." What is "penis envy" you ask? Those that weren't born with them wish that they were, and feel the need to prove themselves to be better than those of us that do have them."
"next time you run into her few "buddies" to whom she was bashing you....just tell them you nailed her on an overnight and put out the word that her pu$$y stinks like rotten fish."
Grow up guys. There are plenty of jerks out there, male or female. Just cause someone who acts like a jerk is female, you don't need to use it as fodder for sexist remarks.
This captain may not be insecure, maybe she just doesn't like you. There are probably male pilots you have flown with that don't like you as well. Hell, i'm sure there are folks who I have flown with who don't like me, male or female. Not everyone will like you in life, and you just need to deal with it.
On another note, it's pretty sad the few folks here who have jumped on this and made criticisms of the captain based on her gender.
"Most women pilots I have come in contact with are terribly insecure. They are in this business to compete with men, and putting you down is her way of proving that she is superior."
"I've heard of this sort of thing before, and someone once described this situation as a case of "Penis Envy." What is "penis envy" you ask? Those that weren't born with them wish that they were, and feel the need to prove themselves to be better than those of us that do have them."
"next time you run into her few "buddies" to whom she was bashing you....just tell them you nailed her on an overnight and put out the word that her pu$$y stinks like rotten fish."
Grow up guys. There are plenty of jerks out there, male or female. Just cause someone who acts like a jerk is female, you don't need to use it as fodder for sexist remarks.
WhiteCloud
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Right Rudder,
I agree with you about the petty sexist remarks. Except the years that I spent at JAL, I have flown with many, many women in both airline and military operations. Most are great to fly with and some need a little help. I don't think that is any different from flying with a man. Most are great to fly with and some need a little help.
I think the penis envy is usually generated by the 20ish to 30ish male, in my observation. Although, I am hearing less "empty kitchen" remarks on the radio, it is still there and I know who is saying it. It's not professional.
On the other hand, I don't agree with you about letting it go, and here's my reasoning.
Cheap, petty back-stabbing has no place in the operations area. If she wants to go home or to a party and bad mouth the entire roster, it's her right to do so, but not on company property. It can lead to a breakdown in company morale and erode flight deck performance, which can eventually have dire cosequences.
I don't think, however, he should approach this person in a hostile manner. I think he should think about what he will say, and politely let her know that he feels badly about offending her, and he wants to make it right between them. Bingo! She's been put on notice that she didn't get away with her petty crap, but he is willing to be a professional about it. It is a lesson in maturity for the both of them. One gets experience in dealing with conflict. The other gets a lesson in opening her trap in the wrong place (maybe).
Just my opinion. However, as a CP, if you came to my office with it, I'd throw you out and say work on it yourself. That's just me, though. Todays CP may have to contact HR to determine if this is sexual harassment. It will get blown out of porportion, and both reputations ruined.
I agree with you about the petty sexist remarks. Except the years that I spent at JAL, I have flown with many, many women in both airline and military operations. Most are great to fly with and some need a little help. I don't think that is any different from flying with a man. Most are great to fly with and some need a little help.
I think the penis envy is usually generated by the 20ish to 30ish male, in my observation. Although, I am hearing less "empty kitchen" remarks on the radio, it is still there and I know who is saying it. It's not professional.
On the other hand, I don't agree with you about letting it go, and here's my reasoning.
Cheap, petty back-stabbing has no place in the operations area. If she wants to go home or to a party and bad mouth the entire roster, it's her right to do so, but not on company property. It can lead to a breakdown in company morale and erode flight deck performance, which can eventually have dire cosequences.
I don't think, however, he should approach this person in a hostile manner. I think he should think about what he will say, and politely let her know that he feels badly about offending her, and he wants to make it right between them. Bingo! She's been put on notice that she didn't get away with her petty crap, but he is willing to be a professional about it. It is a lesson in maturity for the both of them. One gets experience in dealing with conflict. The other gets a lesson in opening her trap in the wrong place (maybe).
Just my opinion. However, as a CP, if you came to my office with it, I'd throw you out and say work on it yourself. That's just me, though. Todays CP may have to contact HR to determine if this is sexual harassment. It will get blown out of porportion, and both reputations ruined.
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N2264J
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Not necessarily
Personally, I think this is exactly a Professional Standards issue.
If it's her problem, they may have complaints from other FOs. If it's his problem, they may have complaints from other Captains. Either way, the union gets some more data points to figure out the source and address it.
It's not just about getting along. The concept is to fix the problem before it becomes a safety of flight issue. It's not a single pilot airplane and both pilots have to be on the same team when operating in dicey conditions.
GCD said:
Personally, I think this is exactly a Professional Standards issue.
If it's her problem, they may have complaints from other FOs. If it's his problem, they may have complaints from other Captains. Either way, the union gets some more data points to figure out the source and address it.
It's not just about getting along. The concept is to fix the problem before it becomes a safety of flight issue. It's not a single pilot airplane and both pilots have to be on the same team when operating in dicey conditions.
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English
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FatesPilot
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