Crash in MN

[rightrudder]

Just heard on news that a King Air crashed in MN, and that tailnumber of a/c was plane used by MN Senator Paul Wellstone. They do not yet know if he was on board.

 

[jetexas]

He was on board. 8 people died. ; (

Bulletin: Sen. Paul Wellstone Dies in Plane Crash, CNN confirms -- Details to Come
EVELETH, Minn. (Oct. 25) - A plane chartered by Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., crashed Friday and all eight aboard died, a Transportation Department official said.

The plane went down two miles from a runway in a wooded area, according to officials. Greg Martin, a spokesman for the FAA, said eight people died in the crash.

Several Democratic officials said Wellstone had not been heard from in several hours.

Officials in Wellstone's campaign office could not be reached immediately.

One Democratic official said Wellstone's schedule for the day included a chartered flight to Eveleth, where he was to attend a funeral.

 

[skyking1976]

I heard that they were trying their 2nd approach. WX was OVC007 and rainy, probably icing too.

 

[JimNtexas]

decoded METAR:

KEVM 10/25 12:14 PM LIFR 5 sm Light Snow Overcast 400' 140 (SE) at 3 kt 35.6°F 33.8°F 30.03" 93%

 

[JJJ]

Has anyone seen any so called "Aviation Experts" yet on the news yet. It seems like there are always "experts" on tv speculating what caused the accident.

 

[Fast8945]

As far as the aviation expert goes= YES, miles obrien. He talked about the leading edge of the King Air 200 (unknown what type of aircraft except a KING AIR). He was talking about how ice doesn't build up on th leading edge because of the "boots".

Can someone tell me though, can't ice build up in the flaps and ailerons? Thanks.

Also, can someone interpert the weather statement. Thank you for your help.

 

[jetexas]

Fast8945..

KEVM 10/25 12:14 PM LIFR 5 sm Light Snow Overcast 400' 140 (SE) at 3 kt 35.6°F 33.8°F 30.03" 93%
KEVM - airport code
10/25 - date
LIFR - Low IFR
5 sm - 5 statute mile visibility (not bad)
overcast 400 feet
140 - wind direction
35.6 degrees F/ 33.8 degrees F - temp, dew point spread. the closer this is, the lower the ceilings (usually).
30.03 pressure
93% - humidity

You can definitely get a lot of ice even with boots. If you wait too long to pop the boots, you can run into problems, too fast, you can have problems too. boots are no guarantee, especially if you get into severe icing.
Ice generally does not get past the boots, unless you are in severe icing where all bets are off. The water can then streak back along the wing and freeze there.

 

[sydeseet]

I'm just glad that CNN has something new to report now that the sniper is caught. Nothing like a good ol' fashioned plane crash to tie up cable news for at least a week or so. I wonder what they'll suggest this time:
Not flying when it's "bad weather?"
Not flying airplanes that can crash?
They'll probably suggest that all King Air's be grounded until they find the problem because they're sure this is an inherent flaw in the airplane, they don't just crash for no good reason!!!!
Maybe political figures shouldn't use those "fly by night" charter operators with the otherwise impecable safety record, that'll help.
If all else fails they can always call it pilot error.....

Anybody remember the "death spiral" that killed JFK Jr? Or the proposal by the "experts" that non-licensed pilots not be allowed to touch the controls at low altitudes after the Jessica D-something crash a few years ago???

Cable news and their "experts" needs to be outlawed like asbestos in buildings, it has the same affect.

Sorry, just a little ranting about the media and aviation. I'm not making light of the accident at all, bad things happen sometimes.

 

[azpilot]

With weather at 400' overcast and no precision approach in snow it seems like they should not have been shooting the approach.

Sad. Hopefully no lawsuits will result of this and I give my sympathy to the families involved.

- AZPilot

 

[AlphEcho]

All the recent word that I've heard from the FAA is that that whole theory about ice "bridging" around the boots is total myth. In all their experiments they have never been able to make that happen, therefore I doubt that was the cause of this accident. However it is a pretty cold and icing-conducive day here in MN, and icing could have been a factor. Evelyth is out in the middle of nowhere, and it appears that weather was below minimums for that airport at the time of the crash. I met the pilots of the airplane and saw the aircraft when Wellstone was in MKT a couple weeks ago. One real young guy and an older guy, both very friendly. It's a real tragedy for sure.

 

[chperplt]

All the recent word that I've heard from the FAA is that that whole theory about ice "bridging" around the boots is total myth. In all their experiments they have never been able to make that happen, therefore I doubt that was the cause of this accident

I just saw that lovely NASA video during recurrent. According to that video, ice bridging IS a problem for older boots. Modern boots do not have this problem as they inflate at a much quicker rate.. Again, according to the NASA video.

 

[AlphEcho]

ice "bridging"

Fair enough Chperplt. I hadn't heard the exemption about the older boots. Now I might have to totally retract what I speculated before about this not being a problem, because the airplane that I saw in MKT, which I think is the same one that crashed, is an older model. I thought it was a -200 but the news guys are saying -100. Whatever. Regardless, it still seems like VERY marginal weather at the time of the approach.

 

[metrofo]

Well lets just think about what could have caused this accident with the info that we do have. If there was light snow on the ground, then the freezing level was just above the airport no more than a few thousand feet at the most. There was no mention of any ice pellets or freezing rain in the weather report that was posted. That would be a really big clue to speculate about a severe icing encounter that would bring down a King Air that quickly. Lets face it folks, a King Air is a tank and it is going to take a hell of alot of ice for one to fall out of the sky. I would speculate if there was infact only light snow falling at the time of the accident, then there was not enough moisture in the air or the temperature inversion required to bring down such a solid machine as a KA so fast.
Next, if in fact they were attempting a second approach, then i would speculate they went to mins the first time and had no luck. It would not be un heard of for a pilot to try to duck just a bit under mins and give it a second try. This would be my bet and that would make this a plain and simple case of CFIT. Im not claiming to know what happened, but with the weather info that has been posted here, I just dont buy the severe icing story.

 

[mckpickle]

I just got a laugh. Some new channel was interviewing a former NTSB chairperson. And they News guys said,"well when they find the CVR things will be more clear". The NTSB guy said well I doubt this aircraft had a CVR, and the news guy responded, " well yes It does I looked it up!"

Jacka$$. How many king airs have CVRs? Anyone know.

Also I bet Ice had something to do with it, however this it starting to look like a CFIT issue. I write that as I sit in my leather office chair with a very low blood pressure. I'm sure they had their hands full.

 

[FL000]

Jacka$$. How many king airs have CVRs? Anyone know.

I can't claim to have been in many, but the 90 and the 200 that I flew each had one.

 

[TwinTails]

It was a late 80's model B-200. I think maybe an 89'. I may be mistaken but in the later models King Airs I think they did have CVR's, I may be wrong though.

The approaches at the airport are all non-precision. VOR, VOR-A, GPS, GPS-A. The lowest one was the GPS, and that one was
371-1.

 

[Birdstrike]

Plates

His wife and two daughters were reported to be aboard also. I wanted to look at the plates but don't have them. Can somebody forward the URL to a site where I can pull the plates?

 

[Mr Freeze]

Freezing rain could have been part of the cause of this accident. If they were on the second time around for the approach in freezing rain and a full airplane, along with some passenger out of his/her seat asking "how much longer till we land" it does get stressful and is very distracting.

 

[Andy Neill]

birdstrike,

I believe it is wife and ONLY daughter on board - two sons not on board.

http://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl for the approach plates.

 

[metrofo]

I have been doing some looking around to try and find more info about this crash. Despite what was posted earlier on this board, there has been mention of moderate freezing rain in the area at the time of the crash. I dont know what info is correct but that would obviously change my point of view that this was a pure CFIT accident.