Cranky Flier: SWA continues Cutting ATL, DL must be thrilled

[GhettoBeechjet]

Fred,
Your right we did. But just like the AAI group the SWAPA pilots choice was between the deal SWA put on table and an alternative that would have been career altering for every SWAPA pilot. My life hasn't gotten better because of this deal. As a matter of fact I'm moving backwards. The difference is I don't blame the AAI pilots or ALPA. I actually hope we all come out of this OK.

 

[ATLplt]

Fred,
Your right we did. But just like the AAI group the SWAPA pilots choice was between the deal SWA put on table and an alternative that would have been career altering for every SWAPA pilot. My life hasn't gotten better because of this deal but I don't blame the AAI pilots or ALPA.

Not quite just like the AAI pilots. Our deal was for our jobs or a roll of the dice...suppose you could call that career altering. I would have rather taken my roll in arby, but 84 percent wanted the guaranteed job.

 

[Britpilot]

The good news for the AAI pilots is that the integration will get done per the agreements. Maybe Fletch et all will feel better about it when the first pilot furloughed in 2015 is a RSW guy and they are still working.

Don't know about that.
At the present training rate there will be 800-1000 pilots left on the AAI side on 12/14. With the 717 fleet gone to DAL and a reduced 737 fleet at AAI, I can only speculate as to the fate of the remaining pilots on the AAI side.
Will SWA continue to pay pilots without an airplane to fly or a training date? $64,000 question.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Not quite just like the AAI pilots. Our deal was for our jobs or a roll of the dice...suppose you could call that career altering. I would have rather taken my roll in arby, but 84 percent wanted the guaranteed job.

Well my choices were take the deal or an arbitrated list that would have most likely resulted in me commuting to the West Coast as an F/O for 20 years. Granted thats better than as losing your job but really painful.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Don't know about that.
At the present training rate there will be 800-1000 pilots left on the AAI side on 12/14. With the 717 fleet gone to DAL and a reduced 737 fleet at AAI, I can only speculate as to the fate of the remaining pilots on the AAI side.
Will SWA continue to pay pilots without an airplane to fly or a training date? $64,000 question.

I think the remaining AAI pilots in the bottom 1100 of the COMBINED list will be furloughed. The ones above that will be payed SWA rates and trained as RSW guys in the bottom 1100 are furloughed.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Don't know about that.
At the present training rate there will be 800-1000 pilots left on the AAI side on 12/14. With the 717 fleet gone to DAL and a reduced 737 fleet at AAI, I can only speculate as to the fate of the remaining pilots on the AAI side.
Will SWA continue to pay pilots without an airplane to fly or a training date? $64,000 question.

The key in your statement is "at the present rate." So far, something like 200 AirTran pilots have transitioned. That leaves something like 1550 to go over the next two years. That sound about right, Lear? I just got back from training, and they swore they could transition 900 per year if they had to. Maybe they're waiting until the last minute, to save money, but they say that they can do everybody by the end of 2014, as advertised.

And despite as pessimistic as Ghettobeechjet always is about everything, I don't think anybody's going to your furloughed.

Bubba

 

[captb767]

They took pilots out of seniority. For instance, that F/E you mentioned was probably junior to a lot who wanted to go. It was based on who was current on the airplanes they took. Lot more to it than that I'm sure, but it's been awhile since I heard the whole story.

Not quite...Pan Am ALPA decided who was going to Delta...Alot of back room stuff happened on the Pan Am side...including the "dirty 30" agreement.

 

[Lear70]

Well my choices were take the deal or an arbitrated list that would have most likely resulted in me commuting to the West Coast as an F/O for 20 years. Granted thats better than as losing your job but really painful.

And our choices were take the deal WITH a West Coast commute and no upgrade for 20 years, or hit the street and gamble on getting your job back in 2-3 years after the court battles.

I understand that you don't like your choices you had, but I humbly submit our choices were (and remain) worse than OSW pilots. Just food for thought.

I think the remaining AAI pilots in the bottom 1100 of the COMBINED list will be furloughed. The ones above that will be payed SWA rates and trained as RSW guys in the bottom 1100 are furloughed.

There's nothing that supports that math.

At current rates of attrition plus aircraft scheduled on-property on 1/1/15, the company will only be over-staffed by 300-400 people. The Attrition in 2015 takes care of at least half that, and the only way I see that changing is IF there is a MASS exodus of Classics in 2015 that isn't offset by attrition.

We still don't have the draw-down for the Classics yet, I don't know that SWA has even determined the plan for that, since it's almost 3 years away. If they have, they haven't shared it.

The key in your statement is "at the present rate." So far, something like 200 AirTran pilots have transitioned. That leaves something like 1550 to go over the next two years. That sound about right, Lear?

A little less than that still to go with the class scheduled for January that has already bid over but not yet started, but yes, you're in the ball park.

I just got back from training, and they swore they could transition 900 per year if they had to. Maybe they're waiting until the last minute, to save money, but they say that they can do everybody by the end of 2014, as advertised.

That's EXACTLY what they're telling us they're planning on doing, that even with 1/3 of AAI on reserve, it's still cheaper than absorbing the excess into the SWA ranks, diluting your lines, and paying more reserves to sit around... at SWA rates.

They're going to leave AAI overstaffed until the very end. Fewer people drawing SWA pay rates until 1/1/15, at which point there will be a mad dash to get everyone across as fast as possible and certainly by the time the last 717 goes away.

And despite as pessimistic as Ghettobeechjet always is about everything, I don't think anybody's going to your furloughed.

Agreed.

 

[Citrusflyer]

...I just got back from training, and they swore they could transition 900 per year if they had to. Maybe they're waiting until the last minute, to save money, but they say that they can do everybody by the end of 2014, as advertised.....

Bubba

So, it's kinda like President Barry Hussein. "The last few years haven't panned out, but I SWEAR the next 4 will be different! I know I haven't done it before, but I can now!" Did the empty chair move to the Dallas training department?

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

So, it's kinda like President Barry Hussein. "The last few years haven't panned out, but I SWEAR the next 4 will be different! I know I haven't done it before, but I can now!" Did the empty chair move to the Dallas training department?

In 2008 they were training 3 classes of 24 per month with fewer sims than they have now. They can train at that rate if they need to and plan for it.