Cranky Flier: SWA continues Cutting ATL, DL must be thrilled

[hairball1173]

Atlanta will be a Draw down and then re build based on the aspects of the operation. We have all seen it in Memphis, msp, dtw, and all the other mergers that have happened in the last 50 years.

There is no doubt Atlanta is delta's home town and to compete is a fierce market. AirTran competed and so will the next. It's just the life of the airline business.

 

[scoreboardII]

I can't remember how many times you Corndogs got on here and stated "We're gonna take ATL by storm" or "You better watch out Delta..."

go ahead, find one qoute, just one...

 

[ron burgundy]

Hub and spoke Vs, stagecoach style operation, SW is in the stagecoach business. This is the same reason the 717 doesn't work in SW's operation but worked for AT and will work for DAL. SW is different, whether it's still a better system now that the company is huge remains to be seen in the coming years but it's served SW well for many years. They are concentrating on the markets where they are strongest and have critical mass. SW has never tried to be all things to all people like the legacy carriers have tried to do over the years. Again, we will see how their model holds up and if they are willing to adapt if necessary. The times they are a changin'.

Exactly..they used to compete against busses and trains. They had their niche market. Really,not much competition with the legacy carriers. They had their fan base and it served them well. Like or not,they have grown up and are competing with the rest of the "real" world now. TIME TO ADAPT.
"If ain't broke..don't fix it"....Well,when they realize/ADMIT that it is broken............it"s too late to fix it.. SWA should just get it done. Furlough,dissolve,liquidate the remainder of FL and let everyone get a head start on a new life. I hear that is the general consensus around FL. That it will never "fully" come to fruition. Feeling the GLUV...non-powdered I believe.

 

[KNOTS]

I can't remember how many times you Corndogs got on here and stated "We're gonna take ATL by storm" or "You better watch out Delta..." Guess what? That so far hasn't happened, and it's looking doubtful to say the least. Sorry.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Both sides in this 'debate' are childish and silly...(Yes, I do remember some SWA guys saying this nonsense... and of course you can see some Delta guys countering it)

"My airline is bigger than your airline." (As if you pilots had anything to do whatsoever with this stuff.)

You all sound like idiots.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

I wouldn't say he expected anything; he's just pointing out a glaring fact: this merger will actually HELP Delta by taking out a competitor, leaving no one to compete in ATL who is able to offer a competing product (business class), and raising ticket prices all-around for all the Legacies.

Not to say that it's a threat to SWA - it's just an unexpected plus for Delta. To be honest, we had a better product than SWA does. Better on-time, baggage handling, etc, etc, and people LIKED assigned seating and business class. I haven't heard a single passenger since the announcement say "This is going to be so much better than AirTran alone!"

Yes, I know that's not the business model, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard passengers tell me they will miss us. They all lament the loss of business class and assigned seating and many of those premium passengers will take their business to Delta.

Not a slam, just a fact of life post-acquisition. Different business model, different target audience.

Careful Lear. If Mrs. Magill finds you bad mouthing SWA on a public forum you will be dragged into Dallas and flogged.

 

[Lear70]

Heh heh...

Not hating or bashing, just stating a true fact: AirTran had a loyal fan base based on our product and we competed with Delta successfully with that product, and it was one that I liked and was proud to help produce.

SWA has a different product and a different target audience and will lose that business traveler who wants business class. Just the way it is.

 

[redflyer65]

I get where your proud of your past business product Lear. I agree it was a fine setup. But, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the Southwest business model. We, a lot of times offer direct flights between cities that Delta can't even compete with. Raliegh to Nashville? We go direct. Tampa to Nashville, Raliegh, Louisvillle, Columbus, etc, etc. No connection required.

Delta, and it's passengers, have to deal with the friction of the hub and spoke, and that friction also irritates the business passenger when they HAVE TO connect in Atlanta for every damn flight. The Atlanta hub has been a joke over the years (not the city or people) but the Delta insistance that you go through ATL. Remember 'If you go to Hell, you have to connect in Atlanta'. Very similiar to the DFW hub in Dallas.

Connecting in Atlanta to go international? Makes perfect sense. Sometimes it doesn't for the business guy who wants to bypass the hassle and go direct...then get home direct for dinner.

Add to the fact that we have Southwest Business software in place at these businesses for these guys to book their own travel. There's plenty going on behind the scenes that really never gets discussed. And SW route planning has been firing on all cylinders when it comes to revenue per city pair. I guarantee it's being looked at from every possible angle.

I wish we knew what the Atlanta service would look like in 1,3, and maybe 5 years. To be honest, I'm not sure Gary and route planning know that far out.

Think about it this way..

When Jetblue tried to come into Atlanta from Long Beach, Delta just flooded that one route with more planes and FF miles and drove them out...easily. How does Delta compete with Hundreds of direct flights that fly right past Atlanta? That's a little harder. Delta will have to charge less for a connecting flight that actually cost MORE to operate. Not saying it's a slam dunk against Delta (because they are a good airline), but there are alot of moving parts that sometimes get dismissed.

It's the 'being in the dark' that causes articles like this to be written. As if the writers know better than the airline at how to run things. But you hit it on the head when you said it's really about two different models. Both excellent, but in and Apples and Oranges kind of way.

RF

 

[ATLplt]

Good post Red.

 

[scoreboardII]

DEN was considered a crapshoot by most here, today they own the C concourse.

 

[KNOTS]

I get where your proud of your past business product Lear. I agree it was a fine setup. But, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the Southwest business model. We, a lot of times offer direct flights between cities that Delta can't even compete with. Raliegh to Nashville? We go direct. Tampa to Nashville, Raliegh, Louisvillle, Columbus, etc, etc. No connection required.

Delta, and it's passengers, have to deal with the friction of the hub and spoke, and that friction also irritates the business passenger when they HAVE TO connect in Atlanta for every damn flight. The Atlanta hub has been a joke over the years (not the city or people) but the Delta insistance that you go through ATL. Remember 'If you go to Hell, you have to connect in Atlanta'. Very similiar to the DFW hub in Dallas.

Connecting in Atlanta to go international? Makes perfect sense. Sometimes it doesn't for the business guy who wants to bypass the hassle and go direct...then get home direct for dinner.

Add to the fact that we have Southwest Business software in place at these businesses for these guys to book their own travel. There's plenty going on behind the scenes that really never gets discussed. And SW route planning has been firing on all cylinders when it comes to revenue per city pair. I guarantee it's being looked at from every possible angle.

I wish we knew what the Atlanta service would look like in 1,3, and maybe 5 years. To be honest, I'm not sure Gary and route planning know that far out.

Think about it this way..

When Jetblue tried to come into Atlanta from Long Beach, Delta just flooded that one route with more planes and FF miles and drove them out...easily. How does Delta compete with Hundreds of direct flights that fly right past Atlanta? That's a little harder. Delta will have to charge less for a connecting flight that actually cost MORE to operate. Not saying it's a slam dunk against Delta (because they are a good airline), but there are alot of moving parts that sometimes get dismissed.

It's the 'being in the dark' that causes articles like this to be written. As if the writers know better than the airline at how to run things. But you hit it on the head when you said it's really about two different models. Both excellent, but in and Apples and Oranges kind of way.

RF

Regardless of everything you just said... if SWA is being driven out of ATL... SWA will miss out on the O and D traffic in ATL... which is BIG.

And your logic wouldn't apply to folks going to florida through atlanta who don't care if they stop in atl once on the way to disney world, or a cruise ship, etc..