CR7 cruise speed Eagle ??

[Nightmare67]

"At a tad under 200kts, the shaker started and kicked off the a/p..."

Dude...Please tell me you joking...PLEASE! You didn't sit there and watch the speed bleed to shaker...

 

[JBcrjca]

Apparently you two guys didn't read my post very carefully. I saw the speed bleeding off, prompting me to request a lower altitude. The controller said he'd have it in a few minutes due to traffic. So would you two gentlemen have declared an emergency right then for a lower altitude? I doubt it. I waited as long as I could for the controller to get back to me. When I asked him a THIRD time for lower, he gave us a slight right turn to pass behind someone. Well, we all know what happens when you turn...the green line moves up a little, and there you have it. So no, I didn't just sit there and watch the speed bleed off to the shaker. I was doing the best I could to get a lower altitude. I have no desire to be a test pilot with pax in the back, trust me. A few minutes later I asked the F/A who was in the galley at the time if she heard anything. She said no, didn't have a clue about anything besides feeling a descent starting.

I'm not the first guy that has ever seen this happen. I've heard similar stories around crew lounges both before and after I saw it. The CRJ has been in service since 1993...since then I'm sure that there are several crews at every CRJ operator that have experienced the same thing. But thanks for your opinions anyway.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Having gone through training at two differant airlines for jets now, I am suprised that lots of RJ's haven't fallen out of the sky due to lack of training. Here at ASA, we are told to hold at 225 KIAS above 14k'. There is no mention of holding in the upper flight levels. So, let's say you are coming into ATL and get a hold 150 NM out at FL330, what speed do you slow to? Well, the book say 225, when the max allowed is 265. Buddy, let me tell you, it better be cold, you better be light and you better not hit a bump at FL330 at 225. And then the FMS will prompt you to turn off half-bank because you are holding. Now you are in a 28-30° turn at FL330, and what heppens when you catch the wake off the 757 holding at FL350?

Speed is your only friend at altitude. Stick shaker is not your only enemy. You can be WAY above the red bar and get a low-speed buffet and start to loose altitude along with more speed. There needs to be a new HARD rule on no slower than 250 kias above say FL230 for any reason in the 50 seater. We just don't have the power to recover from low speed and high pitches we can get into.

 

[767200]

I've been quite amazed by the soggy high-altitude climb performance of the 50 seater. I can count on two hands the number of times I've had it to FL410. It has to be cold and light, obviously. Once I had a ship with 75hrs total time on a cold day with 25-30 pax, and the best it could do was FL390...and that was quite a struggle.

The most fun(?) I've had in the CRJ was a few months ago, westbound at 350 with 48 in the back. The controller asked if we could do 390 to help him out with crossing traffic...we consulted the (always optimistic) flip-card and it showed 370 as do-able. He cleared us to 370, and somehow we staggered up there. Once we leveled off, the airspeed held steady for a bit, then began to decrease, even with climb thrust still set. You could see the nose-up deck angle slowly increasing as the speed bled off even more. I requested 350 again and of course the controller said 'in a few minutes'. Then he gave us a slight turn to cross behind traffic, and you could feel the airframe start to buffet. At a tad under 200kts, the shaker started and kicked off the a/p...I told the FO to start down NOW as I told the controller that we were heading back to 350, and I'd declare an emergency if I had to. He came right back with a clearance to 350, of course. Once we got there, everything was just fine. The airplane liked 350 but didn't like 370 one bit. Hey, that was fun, let's do it again sometime! not

If you put CR7 engines on the CR2, then you'd have a great airplane.

Man, it sounds like you either read the wrong chart (or temp/weight, whatever..) or you seriuosly need to be bring this to the attention of your supervisor. If you consult a table, and it says you can do it, then it should be able to do it (within a VERY reasonable amount), those numbers were certified by the manufacter and the respective aviation authorities.

 

[701EV]

Just a couple of questions?

What was your speed when you started to climb to 370?

What was your rate of climb to get to 370?

What was your speed when you got to 370, mach or indicated?


701EV

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

If you operate in predicted mode on the FMS and input all of the appropriate variables the FMS will tell you whether or not you can fly at that altitude. You have to input your present weight, the desired altitude, the ISA deviation (not at your current altitude but your requested altitude from your winds aloft information), and your desired mach. If the FMS says you can't do it then it will say at the bottom something like "unable altitude". You can even input the altitude in divisions of 100s of feet to find out exactly how close you'll be. For example you type in 39,000 and it says unable. You type in 37,000 and message disappears. You can type in 37,400, then 37,500, etc. till it again says unable so you can see exactly at what altitude the FMS says you can't fly at. In my experience it was very accurate and always more conservative than the table in the flip cards. The key is that you have to be in predicted mode and input all of the corresponding variables, and especially the ISA deviation, and what it will be at your requested altitude not where you are now. You may be at FL330 and think FL370 will work out but you start your climb and you climb through the tropopause. Instead of it being ISA -5 it's now ISA +10. Uh oh. Check your winds aloft temps and compare with an ISA graph to see if you can do it. Predicted mode provides lots of good information that measured mode won't ever give you. Just make sure you input all of the pertinent information in.

 

[Twotter76]

Our company policy is to fly in measured always. I forget can you switch between measured and predicted in the air without messing up the box? If so I will try this method the next time I fly...

 

[C-150ETOPS]

"The controller said he'd have it in a few minutes due to traffic. So would you two gentlemen have declared an emergency right then for a lower altitude?"

Yes. As soon as he said "a few minutes" and I matched that with the airspeed decay, I would ask which way he wanted: straight ahead, right or left. You by your own admission admitted you waited too long.

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"When I asked him a THIRD time for lower"


Who was flying your RJ that day? Apparently the ATC guy was filling an empty hole and flying it by voice command.

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"I have no desire to be a test pilot with pax in the back, trust me."

Throw in the typical unforecast MDT CHP and you may have gone where no Canadair test pilot has gone, you and 48 passengers too.


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"I was doing the best I could to get a lower altitude."

I may be wrong, but I don't think the FAA, NTSB, the media and probably 100 trial lawyers would give a crap about what you consider "your best" if someone got a hangnail over this. My guess is you are out of school now. You don't want to find out in the wrong enviroment ,that all those years getting your "self esteem" pumped in the US educational system don't mean squat.


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"A few minutes later I asked the F/A who was in the galley at the time "

Hopefully, modern wing design has greatly lessened the nasty high altitude stall characteristics of the earlier jets. That means there wasn't much chance you could have "ping ponged" her in the galley to a point where she might be driving a wheelchair now.

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PS: Don't take me as some superior airman. Regardless of what happened, this and situations somewhat similar can happen to alot of guys. It just seems that from your own words, the situation was aggravated by what your did. good luck in the future.

 

[Nightmare67]

JBcrjca, you can try to justify your actions all you want...you brought this to our attention, and now you don't like being questioned about it. Tough Stuff! YOU screwed up Bro! You said you had no desire to be a test pilot...Dont you practice a recovery technique every six months...you know the one...when the stick shaker comes on and the auto pilot kicks off...somthing like, "STALL...set max power"

Remember the 737 in DC that skipped across the ground and into a bridge at a low power setting and the pilots never thought to set, "BALLS to the Wall," full power to try to fly out it? You sat there waiting for Permission to decend! What about full power? What about 500fpm VS and stating you situation to ATC.

Look Man...we all have screwed up...I'm just suprised by your reaction to any critique...

My advise, though I'm sure you could care less what I say, is to file the Nasa report ASAP, reflect on the situation and move on. I'm sorry I ever posted a response.

 

[Smoked Toilet]

The flip card books are wrong in our planes. Nobody knew this until the CR7's started arriving. While they were picking up a new plane, they saw different books - one for max alt with 500fpm climb, 400, 300, 200, 100, 0. The books in our CR2's are the ones for 0 fpm climb. So if you look up the alt, you aint gonna get there. The books in the CR7 are correct - they put the 300 fpm climb books in the plane. woops.