Could this help a SLI? NW/DL

[~~~^~~~]

Management gets to sell NWA flying and a subsidiary and still comply with scope. They found a loophole.

Why would management be against a sale of Comair and a half billion in cash from NWA's DC-9 flying that they were going to park anyway?

The only way to close loopholes is one list.

My biggest fear with the concept of running NWA and DAL under holding companies is that DAL scope will have a loophole big enough to drive an entire international airline through.

Standing by for SkyWest "C" series orders.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Drama Fin. I do not see that happening. No way no how.
If it does we deserve it for being idiots and giving up what scope we have currently written.

 

[~~~^~~~]

We are idiots for not getting a merger of the airlines Delta acquired in 1999. This is just more of the same.

I remember when DCI going over 4% was a big deal, then 10%, the 20 and 25%. Now DCI is more than 50% of Delta system block hours and Delta pilots say, but we have them beat in Revenue Seat Miles. :erm:

Seems like this deal is a way to acquire an airline and say, "it is their fault, they demanded date of hire." Sound familiar?

The seeds of this vine were planted a long time ago.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Sad but true.
Fact is most do not care as long as they can trot on their merry way. Fly their trip and go home. That is why management has us beat at almost every step.
Hopefully we will change, I am doubtful though.
I think that there is enough new blood this time that is enraged to put a better fight than in the past. How committed are we, time will tell.

 

[Superpilot92]

Sad but true.
Fact is most do not care as long as they can trot on their merry way. Fly their trip and go home. That is why management has us beat at almost every step.
Hopefully we will change, I am doubtful though.
I think that there is enough new blood this time that is enraged to put a better fight than in the past. How committed are we, time will tell.

i am committed

 

[waveflyer]

A national list w/ one pay rate for seat- would solve so many of our problems.

I firmly believe the environment is right for a national list. It's the only way to protect all of us in these mergers. If i'm young and have good seniority at a company- there is no way i'm giving that up just b/c we merge w/ someone. And legally- i wouldn't have to. The precedence has been set for integrated mergers long ago. And as long as seniority ONLY counts at one company- that's the way it should be.

It should be DOH and bring in everyone. The first time you joined a 121 carrier, no matter who they were- that should be your seniority- then transfer companies and do whatever type of flying you want. Get us unified again! Until then we're eating ourselves.

We've been doing it wrong for 30 years- how much longer?

 

[IronCityBlue]

A national list w/ one pay rate for seat- would solve so many of our problems.

I firmly believe the environment is right for a national list. It's the only way to protect all of us in these mergers. If i'm young and have good seniority at a company- there is no way i'm giving that up just b/c we merge w/ someone. And legally- i wouldn't have to. The precedence has been set for integrated mergers long ago. And as long as seniority ONLY counts at one company- that's the way it should be.

It should be DOH and bring in everyone. The first time you joined a 121 carrier, no matter who they were- that should be your seniority- then transfer companies and do whatever type of flying you want. Get us unified again! Until then we're eating ourselves.

We've been doing it wrong for 30 years- how much longer?

There is no way that's going to happen, nor should it. There is risk involved in going to another company, and no rational, fair way to instantly eliminate that risk without giving the mother of all windfalls to some at the expense of others. A senior prop pilot gets hired by a legacy and instantly bids 747 Captain? Riiiiight. Never going to happen, nor should it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree that it should be a national list. Fences of course for regional guys for 10 years to the wide body left seat positions, but after that it is a wash.
You could choose QOL over pay, and the choice would be yours.
We see it as not being fair because we left and it hurt us, but if I got my longevity for my regional time then the military guy gets his for serving our great country.
That is fair. Fact is there are too many special interest involved in this industry, and not just the pilots. We cannot agree about one carrier much less all of them.

 

[NuGuy]

Most thought Compass would be spun off.

The wrinkle in that plan was another portion of the NWA scope.

It was actually a two tiered scope, with half the large RJs (the "Lower Cap") being available to any Airlink operator, and the other half (the "Upper Cap"), being available to a wholly owned Airlink (Compass, in this case).

You're right...it was expected that Compass would eventually be sold. However, in order to do so, and remain within the provisions of Section 1, 10 DC-9 replacement aircraft MUST be in operational service at the mainline.

In other words, no DC-9 replacement, no selling of Compass. There are additional roll-back provisions to protect scope after the spin off.

A 36 aircraft airline is a money loser. With all the duplication of effort (MX, admin, ect), you can't amortize the fixed cost out over a large fleet like bigger outfits.

It was thought at the time if you shackled NWA financially, you'd forced them to get a DC-9 replacement, and keep the flying in-house.

They were right...sort of. Compass has become somewhat of an albatross for NWA...can't expand it, can't sell it, can't transfer the flying to anyone else.

With the drawdown of some NB flying, the RJ cap comes into play, and both XJ and Compass were looking at cancelled orders, which made the cost side of things even worse for Compass.

Had the DAL thing not come down the pike, management would have been forced to curtail the 76 seat flying, get a DC-9 replacement or bring the 76 seat flying to the mainline. There was starting to be some serious talk about the latter happening, which, when coupled to the XJ flow through, would have been good for EVERYONE.

But, as Occam says, OBE.

If you guys sell out scope just to make a point, then, that's just stupid. Once sold, you never get it back, because management KNOWS the true value of it. And I'm sure you know, Fins, that price is too high for many mainline guys to willingly pay.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

A 36 aircraft airline is a money loser. With all the duplication of effort (MX, admin, ect), you can't amortize the fixed cost out over a large fleet like bigger outfits.

Thank you for your reasoned post.

But, a 36 airplane fleet is not such a hinderance if you operate the type already at another subsidiary. We saw that with the transfer of 19 900's CRJ's from ASA to SkyWest who set them up in a completely separate ATL operation and Republic Airlines holdings has several certificates that span a single seniority list. Management can drive around that roadblock. The paperwork only slowed SkyWest down a little.

That is why we have to get this stuff on a single list.