Cost of checkrides

[DrProc]

...I think that is a tounge-in-cheek remark,...but,...just in case you are really in the dark about that, you can't get an appointment until about 3 weeks or so after you call for one, then if the weather isn't at least 5000 ft ceiling - 5 miles vis on the checkride day, you will be put off another 2-3 weeks, then if the asigned FAA Inspector gets a higher priority inspection/investigation on the day of your checkride, you are put off again, aaaand if your airplane cannot withstand an FAA Maintainence Inspector's inspection on every nut-and-bolt, you will be lucky to get him to issue a Ferry Permit to get back home on.

I concur...I met a guy once who would only take checkrides with the feds because they were free. But then after several rides, the aircraft failed the inspection because of a frayed seatbelt. And he had to get a ferry permit...etc...

 

[JAFI]

I would like to add a few comments here.

I travel 3 hours for a 8 am check ride only to be told "Oh, didn't any one tell you we decided last week he wasn't ready?" Then travel 3 hours back which means I get nothing done for the entire day except add miles to a G-car. School is put at the bottom of my list for my time.

Aircraft for check ride is leaking oil so bad student is found under aircraft wiping up oil just before checkride. FBO was told twice to get it fixed before. School gets visit from several Inspectors. Other areas found "deficent".

I travel four hours to do a check ride and applicant does not have the required number of hours for the exam. I do a records check and find other problems. School goes to the top of my watch list.

Instructor tells commercial applicant "just double the runway length required if the runway has slope to it" (insted of using the pilot handbook for calculation). Long discussion with student and reexamination for Instructor. Instructor had other holes in his knowledge areas......

Student tells me "I'm not ready for the check ride but the school said I have completed the number of hours, so here I am. Roll eyes, he we go again...

Instructor tells me a inoperative component on the aircraft is MEL'd. School never had an MEL program..... I ask "what else have you MEL'd lately?" .....

Commercial applicant attempting to do a weight and balance with out proper aircraft empty weight and balance document. Instructor had no idea where the aircraft weight and balance numbers were and "Had not seen them for quite a while". Some days it doesn't pay to get out of bed.

Examiners just walk away from this stuff. I can not. It all takes up my time.

Throw in a couple of accidents and your schedule goes to hell.....

But the paycheck comes every two weeks. I cannot say that about some of my industry jobs.

JAFI

 

[nosehair]

I would like to add a few comments here.

School is put at the bottom of my list for my time.

JAFI, if the occurance of your various scenarios is "occasional" (and occasional can seem often when you do a lot of checkrides), that's the way of life; it's gonna happen - accept it. It goes with the territory; it is, after all, a "school". Young people are learning.

If, on the other hand, these occurances are frequent enough to merit attention (and I think they are), then the FAA is duty bound to find a cause and correct it.

And you (not you personally - you, the FAA), cannot do that by putting us at the bottom of your list.

And I know you (the FAA) are not funded to do that. That's the problem.

However, I think the problem can be corrected by "spreading out" the flight instructor certification process. And the FAA can do that.

Who, on this board or in aviation general, believes that any person with a few months & a few hundred hours of training can become a "fully knowledgeble & experienced" instructor in all areas of vfr flight in any and all single engine airplanes all at once?

Nobody. Nobody can do it, yet we continue to pretend to train & test for this one-checkride-does-it-all concept. What a joke!

No, it's not a joke - it's a terrible tragedy being enfoced on our system of training.

There needs to be a "primary - basic - advanced" system of training and checkrides.

And Primary is most important. That's what the FAA Instructors Handbook says, and I know it's true - and so do you.

Instructors who teach Primary (pre-solo) should be the most experienced.
The worst habits are instilled in the first few hours of training. In our current system of letting the blind lead the blind, when new, fresh, "0" time instructors take new fresh minds and imprint bad habits (let's just fly - we'll take care of the paperwork later), you see the results.

New instructors should get experience with "basic training",which would be after solo up to private for a couple of hundred hours, then get an "advanced" rating for Commercial applicants for a couple hundred hours, and then get a "Primary" rating to teach pre-solo. That's the most important. If we could fix that, the whole picture would change for the better.

 

[JAFI]

Nosehair, I agree with your comments. And I will say the occurrences are few (but memorable). I was discussing this with some DE's not long ago and we came to a conclusion that we spend 95% of our time "dealing" with less than 5% of students. And we could not agree completely on the ratio. 95-5, 97-3, and 99-1 were discussed. The rest come prepared, knowledgeable, excited, and do water your eyes (in a good way).

I think more students and instructors need to believe that part of being an old pilot requires you to be a very good pilot. Short cuts in training and knowledge (IMHO) are like unprotected sex; your chances are that it will bite you where it hurts. Don't look for the easy way, look for the way that will best prepare you for the demanding job it can be.


I will climb down from my soap box now.......



JAFI

edit, I was thinking about your training comments. Your system would work and can be part of a training course. I would guess that no one wants to do it because of money (sell the cheapest and quickest way to a XXX certificate).

 

[Metro752]

Private, Instrument, Commercial = 350.
CFI initial = 450.

Same in Chicago area, currently. $CasH$ as always.

 

[navigator72]

back in the early 90's
Private - $175
Instrument - $250
Commercial - $250

 

[minitour]

I just paid a guy $400 to do my oral and give me a letter of discontinuance for my MEI....what a bargain!

-mini

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I just paid a guy $400 to do my oral and give me a letter of discontinuance for my MEI....what a bargain!-mini

Is this a problem? The $400 is for the test from beginning to end. There shouldn't be a charge for the remainder of the test. I'm sure the examiner would rather do the test straight through but for some reason that was not possible. Was it WX or what?

 

[minitour]

Is this a problem? The $400 is for the test from beginning to end. There shouldn't be a charge for the remainder of the test. I'm sure the examiner would rather do the test straight through but for some reason that was not possible. Was it WX or what?

Not real sure...1900 overcast. He said we couldn't take the plane IMC (climb to VFR on top) for the checkride. That's the first I had heard of that.[FONT=Verdana,Arial][/FONT]

Then miraculously he was booked for 2 weeks solid...when I called him the next day, he all of a sudden has a spot open for me Sunday...problem is my flight leaves (with me on it) in about 2 hours.

It's a mess....

-mini

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Not real sure...1900 overcast. He said we couldn't take the plane IMC (climb to VFR on top) for the checkride. That's the first I had heard of that.

Then miraculously he was booked for 2 weeks solid...when I called him the next day, he all of a sudden has a spot open for me Sunday...problem is my flight leaves (with me on it) in about 2 hours.

It's a mess....-mini

1900 Overcast is too low for the MEI. While he could have filed IFR with you to on-top that can be a problem too. As you know sometimes the tops are ragged and really the top tops are too high (FL-whatever). Plus even if the tops are just 4,000 it would be up to 6,000 or higher for VMC demo so really a discontinuance was a reasonable answer.

But regarding the rescheduling, that should be a 1st priority to the point of postponing others if they are agreeable in order to get you in. Examiners schedules do change quickly so I would guess that if you tell him your availability, something will be found for you ASAP.

Good luck on your ride.