Corporate vs. regional mins

[Lazyrider]

Being a regional pilot who knows very little about the corporate pilot enviroment, Im curious why many corporations or flight departments have much higher mins than most, if not all the regionals. I've noticed that companies like Flight Options, Exec Jet and even private flight departments require 2500-4000 plus hours to sit right seat. Is it due to insurance, cost of training or what?
Thanks for your insight....

 

[Dep676]

Just my 2 cents. I think the fractionals it is a little insurance and upgrade. For a while there the frac's where upgrading real quick and I guess you would need a few hours to do that. As far as corporate, insurance and just the owners could be a reason. As far as insurance you could get anybody in the right seat that you wanted. You just might have to pay a higher premium for the lower time guys. There are plenty of lower time guys on this board flying jets. So it's just depends on the company and the pilots attitude towards lower time guys.

 

[banned username 2]

I would say that typically it is because the can require the higher mins...

My company (Fortune 100) requires about 4,000 hours as a minimum to hire on... We fly all over the world... I think they want the higher time people because our environment is always changing which adds a big enough dynamic.. we need experienced guys who are comfortable flying high performance jet aircraft so they can concentrate on the environment they are working in (International airspace, etc..)

I am not downplaying the difficulty of a Regional Pilots job... just saying that typically flying Corporate is much different... Plus I think it is the pay that is offered... most guys with 4,000+ hours won't work for $20k a year.... Our guys start at $70k+/year... so the regionals have to lower the bar in order to get people... 12 years ago Regionals were requiring 2500/500 for right seat of a 1900... it is all supply and demand...

Fly Safe!

 

[cvsfly]

Its more and more insurance driven. Those who have renewed since the first of the year know. Premimums on similar coverages have doubled. Not only do we have to have a co-pilot on a BE-200 now, we even have stipulations on the hour requirements for those co-pilots. But we don't have much clout either being a 1 aircraft department. I hope someone will step up and confront the insurance companies (although there are few aviation ins. co. left) and take them to task on their unfair advantage they have taken since 9/11.

 

[501261]

It's supply and demand, pure and simple. According to a recent article EJA had over 10,000 "qualified" resumes on file. EJA is a desirable job, a lot of there pilots are making over 6 figures.

Also you'll find that most "quality" corporations pay comparable to the majors. I would guess that most quality corporate flight departments pay there jet captains at least $100k, some G-flyers are over $200K. Otherwise these corporations would constantly be losing there pilots to the majors. Certainly there is some turnover, but there are also people leaving United to fly for Southwest and vice versa.

So most quality corporate jobs are able to really get the cream of the crop, because if you take the pay out of the equation would you really rather fly a 747 for 15 hours or take a Lear down to Newport for the weekend (of course taking your wife along)?

 

[JetPilot500]

501261:

I agree that some of these jobs are very desirable and some do pay pretty well. And the bene's are usually pretty good too! However, some of your salary information may be a little over inflated.

I don't know of any EJA pilots making over $100k, maybe a 737 driver but there aren't that many of those jobs available. I knew a Citation X captain who was there 6 years and was making around $55,000.

I don't know if I would say that most departments pay their Captains over $100k. Only the top end guys like the Gulfstream, large Falcon, or Challenger drivers are making that kinda money. There are a lot of smaller airplane guys out there making more like $50-80k.

As far as G-Drivers go, there may be a very limited few that make $200k, and they are probally department managers. Typical Gulfstream IV-V pay is more like $100-130k. Definately not bad.

I don't mean to throw flames at you, but just want to clarify things.

JetPilot500

 

[501261]

Jetpilot 500,

You're right it is a little inflated, but let me clarify what I meant.

As far as the corporate pay, I said "quality corporate" pay and I stand behind that. If you look into the NBAA salary guide, most jet captains average over 6 figures. Certainly if you throw in charter and cheap operators that average is going to go down to closer to around $60,000.

You're also right there are 6 year EJA C750 captains making $55,000. However, the example that I used is a friend who flies the Falcon 2000 for EJA. He works the alternate schedule and flies an extra day at the end of his trip for $748 per day. He cleared over $120,000 last year, before taxes. Obviously that is rare at EJA, however they are due for a major raise when their new contract gets signed this fall, because right now they certainly are UNDERPAID.

One of the nice things about corporate aviation is that there are no unions, you have to negotiate your own contract. I currently fly a Citation I and make over $110,000, but as I like to remind my boss he can easily hire someone for only $30,000 to fly him around.

I also don't want to flame you but, don't sell yourself short,
501-261

 

[501261]

On the other hand:

There are also typed Gulfstream pilots making less than $30,000, people paying to fly in the right seat of a Lear or Citation. In short the salary scale in the corporare/charter world runs the spectrum.

Just like it does in the 121 world. Great Lakes and Delta are both 121 carriers, yet there is a little disparity between their pay.

It is important that we as pilots stop taking any salary they give us just to "build time". Pilots that are willing to take a below average salary to build multi, turbine, jet, turbine PIC, Gulfstream time are going to drag this whole industy down to their level.

 

[NJA Capt]

However, some of your salary information may be a little over inflated.

I don't know of any EJA pilots making over $100k, maybe a 737 driver but there aren't that many of those jobs available. I knew a Citation X captain who was there 6 years and was making around $55,000.

JetPilot500

Allow me to give an "inside" perspective.
There are plenty of NJA pilots making 100K. All 36 people in the Boeing are indeed over 100K. There are also people in the Ultra who are making over 120K. Granted, they are never at home, but that's the way they like it. If you want it that bad, it's here.

In correction to the statement about the 55K X pilot, that is impossible. Check our website, the absolute base for a 6 year captain (in any aircraft) is 64,188. With twists in our pay scale, like working more than 12 hours/day, that number would grow by at least 5-10k. Therefore, I would think his MINIMUM would come closer to 75K WITHOUT working extended days.


We all know it is underpay, a first year captain in the X should be higher than 75K, much less a 6 year Capt.



PS...As of April 2002, we are officailly NETJETS, or NJA for short, not EJA.

EJ, Inc is now Netjets, Inc. (Owner of NJA, NJI, and EJM)
EJA, Inc. is now Netjets Aviation, Inc. (NJA)
EJI, Inc is now Netjets International, Inc. (NJI).
EJM is still EJM.

 

[trainerjet]

And BFD is still BFD

 

[banned username 2]

And BFD is still BFD

HAHAHAHAA!!!!!

 

[501261]

NJA Capt,

Good luck on the new contract! I know that once you guys get that raise the rest of the industy will eventually get a raise.

The trickle down effect, just like when Delta and United signed their new contracts, eventually those of us in the 91 world also make more money. After all didn't Warren Buffet say a few years ago he was tired of losing his pilots to the airlines, and he wanted to pay his pilots accordingly so that they wouldn't leave for the majors?

Unfortunatly there is also a trickle up effect from PTF and other "cheap" operators. These bottomfeeders screw up the entire system.

 

[NJA Capt]

And BFD is still BFD

WOW! And you came up with that all by yourself?