Corporate vs Airlines

[Indapool]

I think AKAAB just nailed it.

Funny thing is I just got home from a 4 day stay in TEB, loaded up on Rudy's (is there a better rice pudding in the whole freaking world? )AND made the fuel stop in SLN. Some things never change

Corporate was a lot of fun, went all over the world, did alot of things most people only dream of, but it isn't the way I want to spend the next 25 years.

 

[reepicheep]

I would be very leery about leaving a reasonably good corporate job for the airlines. Since I work for US Airways maybe I need to issue a disclaimer - the airlines aren't all this bad - but realize right now you are chasing a moving target. No one knows yet how much pay & benefits packages are going to be gutted. AMR, NWA, DAL, SWA etc... pilots may be next in line to feel the pain that we've already felt. It's hard to say in 5 years how much these jobs are going to pay and what the working conditions will be. And how many of the carriers will still be around.

IF you get hired by the right airline at the right time I think there are still fine careers to be had. What is the "right" airline - 15 years ago it was USAir and Piedmont and United and now it's jetBlue and Southwest. The accolades for USAir 15 years ago was every bit as enthusiastic and widespread as what you see today for jetBlue. If you guess wrong then unlike corporate there's no such thing as a lateral move - you're out of luck and start all over again at the bottom IF you can find a job.

One more thing I have to address - the myth that airline pilots are lazy and don't want to do any "dirty work". This is an oft-cited excuse for corporate operators to shun ex-airline pilots looking for work. The fact is our own airlines have created the work rules and culture that prevents me from helping out with cleaning the cabin or slinging bags. I'd be happy to help out, I know the Southwest pilots do from time to time.

At US Airways we had a captain delay a transcon flight to wait for proper first class catering. He was later called on the carpet by the chief pilot who then issued a bulletin reminding us that "pilots don't work for customer service". True story.

Most of us aren't lazy - just improperly utilized sometimes.

 

[Heavy Set]

Bally,

Sounds like you have reached the "pinnacle" of corporate aviation. Flying a BBJ or Gulfstream IV around the world. Do you know how many pilots (in general) would love to have that opportunity? You have reached the APEX of corporate aviation. You fly one of the most capable and awe-inspiring corporate aircraft on the ramp - Lears don't garner attention at Van Nuys like the BBJs do...

Now you want to maybe leave and start as an FO for 5-6 years flying between El Paso and Tulsa. Sure, Southwest is very stable - probably the most stable airline out there... The salary and benefits will be pretty good. You can probably fly to all four corners of the country in one four-day trip. But unlike Jetblue which flies maybe 3-4 sectors per day (1-2 if you include a transcon), at Southwest you might fly 5-6 sectors - this is "hard" flying. Sure you won't work 28 days per month, but you will work very hard days of exhaustive flying - up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down... We are talking about 20-30 minute turns - no, you can't take a dump, you need to do the pre-flight NOW!!!!!

We have heard ad nauseum about the virtues of Southwest and its FANTASTIC corporate culture and esprit de corps, but I have also heard first-hand how difficult and monotonous the flying can be... If you want a very stable job, a super-fun culture, the 737 for the rest of your life (not the choice between a BBJ and a sleek GIV), 5-6 years until you reach Captain, and extremely good familiarity with the approaches into El Paso, then Southwest is your choice. No doubt it is a great airline - extreme stability in a very turbulent time...

But you will be giving up probably the most "cherry" corporate position out there. I don't know the details of your monthly schedule, but I bet you don't work 28 days EVERY month. And I bet you don't fly between El Paso and Tulsa much.

I don't want to be flamed. I am trying to provide the devil's advocate position. This will be a very, very difficult decision to make. Southwest will continue to do well, but you need to determine if the "Southwest" style of flying is right for you. You may work only 16 days per month vs. 16+ on the BBJ - but those days will most likely be exhausting.

The airlines are not always the answer - look at what is happening at UAL - everyone's choice for employment just 2-3 years ago...

Tough choice. Good luck!

 

[CCDiscoB]

Heavy Set,

Excellent post! I choose corporate, now I just have to find one.....heavy Bally, where do you work?

 

[swimmer]

Bally: Tough choice. It sounds like you have a great corporate job. I had one of those corp. jobs that you described, chasing down dog bones and such. I've been flying for an airline now for almost three years, and wouldn't dream of going back to corp. I do miss "running the show", but there are aspect of it that I don't miss.
Your right about the schedule. It is so nice to beable to plan your life with some certainty a month out. No company pager\cell phone ringing in the middle of the night. There are no extra "duties" to tend to when your not flying, and no office to go to.
You'll only know if you made the right choice when you career is over. Good luck to you.

Swimmer

 

[griffith30@mchs]

Lots of good input on corporate vs airline.I've flown most of my career corporate and got into the airline game late.Airline job is a different job entirely if you have to commute.I was told that if you have to commute you have two jobs;one you love and the other one sucks.At least with SW you can usually commute in on day one of the pairing and home on the last.Depends on where you're based and where you live,of course.My airline has seen fit to construct pairings so that you start early on day one and end late on the last day.It's enough to make me miss corporate.Yeah,sitting around the FBO in TEB is no fun but neither is sitting reserve.Don't even mention the crashpad thing.I had my last roomie in college and that was a long time ago! Good luck,must be tough to have two tough choices.

 

[Bally]

Thanks for all the great comments guys (gals)! I know I am very very fortunate that I have a job given the number of our fellow pilots out of work. All in all, I look forward to an invitation to a class at Southwest Airlines where I will finally see first hand the other side.

I am however, glad that my leaving my current employer will open a space for another pilot to fly the mighty BBJ at a great company. The net effect will be one additional pilot job among a very professional group of folks.

I am happily on my way to some po-dunk town in Russia that I have never heard of. With four RON's there, I guess the soup de jour will be Vodka this week. This is especially true since I am flying with my CP (just kidding). I will be off line since the Rooskies do not have internet access.

Keep warm.

 

[viking737]

Left corporate in 1984, and haven't regretted it one second!
However , now in my 18th year with AA, it looks like a bumpy road ahead! I am sure SWA is a great airline, but I prefer
the mixture of flying that comes with an international carrier.

 

[JetPilot500]

Here is my experience:

After being a CFI (until I had 2700TT), I got a job flying passenger charter in a Falcon 20 as FO. Eventually, got experience flying King Air's and Citation's too. and eventually Captain in all of those planes. Had this job for a few years. Typical charter B.S.. Broken planes and "rules are for the weak" kinda stuff. Not my idea of fun...but the experience was good and necessary.

Then, VIOLA! I got a job flying a G-IV for one of the largest companies in the world. I thought it would be great. I expected it to be everything and more that I wished my last job was. While maintenance was great, I found the there was still an attitude of "rules are for the weak." Gone all the time (Big Airplane = Big Suitcase). Gone 12 days and only fly 2 days, or less. I quickly decided it wasn't for me. I found an airline job so I thought I would try that.

I then get a job with Midwest Express flying a DC-9. No move or commute necessary...thank God! Big pay cut...about 50%, but I was ok with that. I loved the job! Midwest Express had been profitable for the last 12 years and never furloughed a pilot, even during the early 90's. I felt secure. I enjoyed the schedules, but not reserve (but that was only temporary). I flew to like 20 different places, but that was about the same as my corporate stuff. 3 or 4 days of flying followed by 3 or 4 days off....terrific! Couldn't ask for more. I loved it and planned to retire there if I could. Then a month and a half after 9/11, I got furloughed.

Quickly found a job flying charter for the time being.

Then, a flying job with a Fortune 100 company came along. This company turned out to be everything I wanted in a corporate job. A good mix of domestic and international flying. Yes some trips vary in length, but not too bad. Most of my trips are planned way in advance so it's almost like having a schedule. No "pop-up" trips...unless a very rare emergency occurs, and I'll be happy to help out. Great equipment. Profitable company. 15-20 days off per month. No reserve. No commuting. I hope this job lasts! I turned down my recall at Midwest because of this job.

My point. Maybe you don't have the right corporate job. I thought I had a "Cream of the Crop" corporate job, and I didn't like it. I don't get paid as much as the first corporate job, but I'm making more than I would make at Midwest (and they paid pretty decent for an airline). Midwest is not Southwest, I know. Since you are in the pool at SWA, maybe you have some time. Put some feelers out there in corporate, you might find what you are looking for...they aren't all the same.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[Old Crow]

It's the same question over and over... Is giving up the corporate pay worth the schedule of an airline.

That's all it really comes down to. The benifits of a good corporate job far out weigh the airlines. However, the real benefit of an airline is that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good schedule. It's worth millions to some, worth pennies to others.

I was a captain with a fortune 100 company and went to the airlines against my good judgement simply because of the schdule and future security. I question myself, yet I always come back to the same answer... MONEY. I took a 60% pay cut and am paying for it dearly. I also know when I'm leaving home and when I'm coming home and that's where I make up that loss.

If you can adapt to a new financial lifestyle fairly easily... SWA is my opinion.
If you like the things you have and don't mind the schedule. I'd say you should stay put.

Good luck bud.