Corporate vs Airlines

[Bally]

Has anyone worked both sides of the fence?

I have been in the SWA pool for over a year, and hope to be invited to a class this year. I have spent my entire aviation career as a corporate pilot. I am considering giving up a fairly good paying stable corporate position for the airlines, with the illusion that working for a major will provide me and my family a better overall quality of life.

While I will be taking a significnat pay cut, the quality of life issue seems to far outweigh the compensation.

I would appreciate any feedback to what it's really like flying at a major airline, and/or SWA in particular.

The following represents how the sky looks in my world. Please let me know if I am seeing the other side as greener than it really is.

Thanks!!!

Pros of Corporate:

Flying all over the world often to challenging airports like Telluride, CO or Lima Peru. Although I have been a corporate aviator for over 13 years, many of my trips are to places that I have never been to. The flying rearly gets boring.

Being 100% in-charge of the trip. When you launch, it is up to you to ensure that the flight planning is accurate, enough fuel is on-board, you can get fuel at places like Luxor Egypt (was there last week, cost me my favorite Univ. of Michigan sweat shirt to get fuel). Never a dull moment.

If you do get layed off or fired (corporate generally does not have furloughs) there are hundreds of other companies with flight departments. It is much easier for someone with a strong corporate background to find another job within the industry. Not true for a layed off airline pilot trying to break into corporate flying.

Cons of Corporate:

Very few companies have a fixed schedule. It does get old to have your trip cancelled or created one hour prior to blast off. Especially when flying overseas.

The best path for a good salary in corporate aviation is to fly "the big iron", like the Boeing Business Jet, Gulfstream V, or Global Express. These aircraft have a 6,500+ nm range which translates into long trips. Last month I was gone 28 days. Generally speaking, the bigger the jet, the bigger your suitcase.

I am a PIC on a Boeing Bus Jet. The max pay at my Company (a Fortune 500 Corp.) is $150K plus 401K and standard health benifits. I believe this to be rather stadard in the industry.

No union protection. Although I have worked for the same company for nine years (great company by the way), I have seen pilots get fired because the passenger did not like the pilots landings. This is less true at a Fortune 500 Corp where we have a Human Resources Dept. Small operators can be difficult since you are literally at the mercy of the personality of the "boss". I was terminated from my first corporate job because I was was not comfortable schlepping to the specialty dog store before each trip to get the boss's dog her favorite dog biscuits. While I am the first one eager to ensure that the passengers are comfortable, this became rediculous and intererred with my duties as the PIC. I was also requried to drive to the boss's house to pick-up the luggage. Flying the airplane was a minor part of the job.

We often stay at a one place for many days while the passengers are conducting business. When I was single, this was a blast. I would now rather fly when I am at work than stay in a hotel. While it is nice to be on a beach in the French Riviera for five days, if you are not with your family, the novalty wears off.

Pros of Airline:

SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SCHEDULE

While I really like the folks I fly with, it does get a bit boring flyng with the same crew year after year. It seems the diversity of people you fly with at the airlines would be interesting.

Knowing when you are going to be home!!!

Percieved Cons of an Airline:

Is the flying boring?

I heard that at certain airlines, the employees are very negative. Northing worse than working at a company where the company culture is to b--itch and moan all the time.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I am considering giving up a fairly good paying stable corporate position for the airlines

a fairly good paying stable job........
man....these days a whole lot of guys envy you!

I personally think the airlines are better in the long run. I would not switch myself, but I always heard the best job in this business is a very senior major airline pilot....

but then again, Im a little out of touch with the airlines these days, and it seems there are many bad changes coming thier ways...

 

[N1WH]

I am in the same boat as you. I too am wondering if I should leave corporate aviation. I am in the swa pool as well . (#82). Although I fly for a fractional which is a little different from a corporate flight department. I work 7 on and 7 off for my fixed schedule which I love. But I have been told by numerous retired airline crews that I fly with that the airlines are still the best thing going. Your quality of life is what its all about! I am quite senior at my present job and am not too worried about ever being layed off here so I do have some doubts about going to airline and getting the axe. But I believe that swa is going to be around for a very long time! Also if anything does happen I know I will be able to get another corporate job if I was furloughed. But I too get bored of hanging out in fbos and in hotel rooms all the time. I am getting married soon and those cool overnights arent what they use to be! I think either way your in a great spot. Good luck.

 

[GVFlyer]

You might look at the economic opportunity loss involved in switching careers. Determine the money you would lose before you reached economic parity with SouthWest, then compute what that money would be worth over the time required to reach parity.

This is one of the determinants I used when I retired from the military and was trying to decide if I should go corporate or to the majors. In my squadron at Andrews AFB about half the guys went to the airlines and the rest of us went corporate or to manufacturers. The two that went to SWA are happy there.

I know this will be a hard decision for you; good luck.

GV

 

[JayDub]

When you launch, it is up to you to ensure that the flight planning is accurate, enough fuel is on-board,

Isn't that kind of like wanting to be the waterboy when you are the QB? All airline pilots do is fly the airplane, which is what I prefer.

If you do get layed off or fired (corporate generally does not have furloughs) there are hundreds of other companies with flight departments.

But to do this, you often have to go to another city. At most major corporations, the Board of directors is rather inbred. That is to say, that are friends of the chairman, often flying aircraft out of the same general area. It is embarassing to hire a pilot away from a friend, much less hire one that your friend fired.

Very few companies have a fixed schedule. It does get old to have your trip cancelled or created one hour prior to blast off.

With the airlines, your schedule will improve with seniority. With corporate, very little changes with seniority. You can't call off a trip you don't like just because you've been there longer in corporate aviation.

The best path for a good salary in corporate aviation is to fly "the big iron", like the Boeing Business Jet, Gulfstream V, or Global Express. These aircraft have a 6,500+ nm range which translates into long trips. Last month I was gone 28 days.

Same with the airlines. However, you don't bid the "big iron" until you can get a decent schedule, if you want. With that said, you will have more days off by regulation than you had last month. You also have to stick to other regs like duty, min days off, etc. even at the crappiest commuters. At an airline like SWA, you'll never be asked to fly broken airplanes, or exceed duty day limits. Don't know if this applies to you, but it did to me.

No union protection. Although I have worked for the same company for nine years (great company by the way), I have seen pilots get fired because the passenger did not like the pilots landings.

My airline is non-union and they wouldn't dare fire you w/o just provocation for fear of getting one.

I would now rather fly when I am at work than stay in a hotel.

Bingo! Same with me.

Is the flying boring?

If an airline only flew to this few places, it would never get big enough to hire anyone.

I heard that at certain airlines, the employees are very negative.

You make the same pay rate whether you are happy or not. I choose to be happy.

You might look at the economic opportunity loss involved in switching careers.

That is an age-driven argument. How old are you?


I hope this helps.


JayDub

 

[Midnight Mike]

Bally

Can you send me an email

[email protected]

I have some questions for you about corporate flying? In turn, I can have some of my pilot buddies speak
with you about your problem..

 

[AKAAB]

JayDub pretty much covered what I was going to say.

I made the jump from corporate to airline three years ago, and have not regretted a moment of it. Actually, I believe I was the first corporate pilot hired at JetBlue. My sim partner was the second.

I have seen my schedule dramatically improve every month and have never been bored a single day. In my last corporate position we basically flew to four cities, with an occasional roadshow to sell more stock or bonds, or such. Now, if I get tired of flying in any particular area, I bid for something else. For example - I hate Burlington in the winter...so I fly there in the Summer. If I get really bored, I'll bid a Seattle trip. Feel like going to Spain, Iberia interline tickets are about $100!

What do I miss...oh, maybe Rudy's box lunches (with the little purple flowers), the Flowers Girls in Salina, the occasional shrimp coctail, and the Flowers Girls in Pueblo.....

What don't I miss....Teterboro (over and over), beepers, fear of beer (the boss might need me), flying with the same boring guy day after day, listening to the CEO explain how to save fuel by filing direct to White Plains from South Florida (yeah, that works), motels with no idea when I'm leaving, flying with McGuyver who thought he could fix anything with safety wire and nurse any ailing airplane until we got home - no matter how bad, cancelled vacations because we never had enough pilots on staff, and finally - knowing that the future of the company was not affected one iota by my existence.

At JetBlue, I honestly feel that every flight I am helping build something unique and that my efforts directly support our growth and viability. I can't tell you how much pride I have going to work each day. Shucks, I've even gone so far as to write commercials for future consideration by our PR department - just because, you know! Unfortunately, my sense of humor will probably keep me from ever seeing my ideas on the tv, but at least they appreciate the ideas.

So, if you are looking at the airlines, and don't mind never having to negotiate for fuel with someone who smells like a camel, then come on over. You won't be disappointed as long as you find an airline where the people enjoy their jobs. SWA, JB, and AirTran are probably the best choices.

Good Luck!

AKAAB

 

[Bally]

AKAAB,

Thanks for your comments. By the way, I wish I could get my wife to cut off the crusts on my sandwiches like Rudy. I will miss Rudy...

I thought I was the only one whose CEO (non-pilot) had more "constructive comments" on how the fly the jet than FSI.

 

[embdrvr]

Last month I was gone 28 days. Generally speaking, the bigger the jet, the bigger your suitcase.

No thanks, I don't think I want to end up divorced. One nice thing about the airlines is being home 12-18 days per month depending upon schedule and whether or not you commute. Plus you have a better chance of your kids recognizing you and not getting bit by your own dog.

 

[roadkng737]

Bally,

I made the jump from corporate to SWA 5 years ago and feel it was the best move of my life. It was the hardest thing I had ever done as I was working with my two best friends in a flight department that we started.

I think that I can answer any questions you might have and would luv to help you out.

If you are still wondering then please email me.

Good Luck,

TJ