Corporate flights into Iraq

[Jetdriver69]

We tried to get into Iraq a few weeks ago and had to get a waiver letter from the FAA to comply with SFAR 77. Of course it is impossible to get the FAA to do anything on short notice, so we were forced to fly into EDDF and our pax had to airline into Iraq on Lufthansa. Has anyone had any luck getting this waiver? The restriction is only for US aircraft, so euro companies have an advantage while dealing with the Iraqis. Again the FAA doesn't care about the business aspect or the inconvenience to our passengers, only about our "safety".

 

[NCherches]

Why the eff' would anyone wealthy enough to be flying on a bizjet want to go to Iraq right now?

 

[K.V.]

We tried to get into Iraq a few weeks ago and had to get a waiver letter from the FAA to comply with SFAR 77. Of course it is impossible to get the FAA to do anything on short notice, so we were forced to fly into EDDF and our pax had to airline into Iraq on Lufthansa. Has anyone had any luck getting this waiver? The restriction is only for US aircraft, so euro companies have an advantage while dealing with the Iraqis. Again the FAA doesn't care about the business aspect or the inconvenience to our passengers, only about our "safety".

No luck here. We've been trying for the past couple of years and as far as I can tell, the FAA has yet to issue a waiver to anyone. We keep checking though. The waiver is probably nothing but false hope anyway. I don't foresee anyone getting in there until the FAA completely lifts SFAR 77. Keep checking though, it's only a matter of time before it's "business as usual" again.

Personally, I have an idealogical problem with SFAR 77. I can't see where the FAA feels it has the right to tell us where we can or cannot go outside of the US. To me, it's just another "Nanny" Law. The government's way of protecting me from my stupid self.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Why the eff' would anyone wealthy enough to be flying on a bizjet want to go to Iraq right now?

What makes you think the guy who OWNS it is going there? lol...maybe his "people" who were told to get on the ground floor of any business growth.

That being said, I wouldn't do it!

EDDF sounds wonderful.

And I agree, who is the FAA to say where you can go in this world? thats should be between you, your crazy pilots, and your insurance company.

 

[njcapt]

I know an account that goes to Kabul fairly frequently and was going to Baghdad until the feds pulled the plug on them. There is a lot of financial potential in those F'd up places for the investor/developer with capital and cojones.

 

[K.V.]

What makes you think the guy who OWNS it is going there? lol...maybe his "people" who were told to get on the ground floor of any business growth.

That being said, I wouldn't do it!

EDDF sounds wonderful.

And I agree, who is the FAA to say where you can go in this world? thats should be between you, your crazy pilots, and your insurance company.

People are often afraid of what they don't understand.

A numer of times, we've had to fly into OKBK so that the principals (not peons) could charter into ORBI. Private aircraft are operating in and out of Bagdad every day these days. Besides, the safest place in that country is probably right there on that airport. Sure there's risk involved, but no more than when we fly into places like Jakarta or Angola.

Furthermore, before we even step foot into any of these places, our corporate security arrives weeks, if not months prior, to assess and evaluate the current risk and threat factor. If, for any reason they deem that place unsafe, we don't go.

One should probably tread lightly with their uneducated cynicism.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

People are often afraid of what they don't understand.

A numer of times, we've had to fly into OKBK so that the principals (not peons) could charter into ORBI. Private aircraft are operating in and out of Bagdad every day these days. Besides, the safest place in that country is probably right there on that airport. Sure there's risk involved, but no more than when we fly into places like Jakarta or Angola.

Furthermore, before we even step foot into any of these places, our corporate security arrives weeks, if not months prior, to assess and evaluate the current risk and threat factor. If, for any reason they deem that place unsafe, we don't go.

One should probably tread lightly with their uneducated cynicism.

Uneducated? Oh, I have worked at places that looked into Afghanistan and Iraq, I know its not rocket science. Iraq and Afghan. were both pretty accessible with connections, even years ago. Iraq was more work, and only pax I knew that went in went on military organized "delegations"...and yeah, have spent enough time in Jakarta and Africa than I ever need to. Dont ever want to go back to either, but of course ya never know..

All I was implying is that I'm not doing it anymore. To me this business is not worth that crap. Please dont think you're the only wacky corporate pilot out there with all the insight on doing this $hit. LOL. Kuwait City and Baghdad are night and day to me -- Im not getting a cut of the risk/reward money that comes out of the deal in Baghdad, so I am happy to sit in the JW Marriott in Kuwait..I wouldn't take it personal and wouldn't be upset that some other smarter than me corporate pilot can do the Baghdad run. Cya in a few days (if they stay?)...But again, I also agree that the FAA shouldn't tell you what you can and cant do in Iraq.

Good luck getting company paid security to tell you its unsafe. They often dont have YOUR security at the top of their priority. Can we go to Baghdad? "Sure!"....thats all I need to know!..Have they ever told you that you CANT go somewhere? While we always stayed at the same places as the pax in the worst locations, there was always gaps, rides to the airport etc etc that made me think "this job sucks"...but whatever works for ya!....

Maybe I have gotten old, but I will take the garden spots, not the green zones.

 

[BoilerUP]

There is a lot of financial potential in those F'd up places for the investor/developer with capital and cojones.

Bingo...

 

[Kingairrick]

You might try to get in touch with someone in flight ops at Bechtel (sp?) They are in OAK I think. I was in school with a couple of their guys and they go there.

 

[badlander45]

"One should probably tread lightly with their uneducated cynicism."

Fantastic! you mind if I use that?

 

[avbug]

Personally, I have an idealogical problem with SFAR 77. I can't see where the FAA feels it has the right to tell us where we can or cannot go outside of the US. To me, it's just another "Nanny" Law. The government's way of protecting me from my stupid self.

You don't understand how the organization that grants you your flying privileges can regulate them? Really?

You have no flying rights. You have privileges, and you have them only insofar as the organization that grants them shall allow.

Private aircraft are operating in and out of Bagdad every day these days. Besides, the safest place in that country is probably right there on that airport. Sure there's risk involved, but no more than when we fly into places like Jakarta or Angola.

Spoken like someone who has no experience operating in Iraq.

I operated in and out of Baghdad and a number of other locations throughout Iraq last year. I enjoyed numerous mortar and rocket attacks, and other events, to say nothing of frequent encounters with unmanned traffic.

I saw no private aircraft operating. I saw contract aircraft operating which had authorization based on specific operational needs.

I flew into Baghdad as a commercial passenger, and flew in and out operationally. I've been stuck due to rocket attacks shutting down runways, including craters that prevented takeoff. Safest place in the country, you say? Compared to what? What other places in the country have you been, flying, or living?

Iraq is a fairly civil place today compared to what it was a few years ago, but it's not a safe place by any stretch of the imagination.

As for flying in and out of Afghanistan, which I do, it's hardly an easy place to arrange or operate either...and is most definitely not safe. Upon landing at a particular location there a month ago, my first notification upon coming to rest was of holes in the back of the airplane, that weren't there when we took off.

I have been associated with operations in Iraq, including recently, in which we would have loved to operate our own equipment in and out of the country to move parts, people, and equipment. Even for an organization with authorization to be there and an operational need, obtaining authorization to use our own aircraft in and out held obstacles, and often the most simple, economic solution was to commercial people in, and ship equipment.

You're far better off taking your people to Frankfurt or where ever else you find convenient, and having them commercial to their destination. Good luck moving around the country when they arrive.

 

[Sandhawk]

Soooo Avbug, what have you NOT done in aviation in the past year???

You don't understand how the organization that grants you your flying privileges can regulate them? Really?

You have no flying rights. You have privileges, and you have them only insofar as the organization that grants them shall allow.

Spoken like someone who has no experience operating in Iraq.

I operated in and out of Baghdad and a number of other locations throughout Iraq last year. I enjoyed numerous mortar and rocket attacks, and other events, to say nothing of frequent encounters with unmanned traffic.

I saw no private aircraft operating. I saw contract aircraft operating which had authorization based on specific operational needs.

I flew into Baghdad as a commercial passenger, and flew in and out operationally. I've been stuck due to rocket attacks shutting down runways, including craters that prevented takeoff. Safest place in the country, you say? Compared to what? What other places in the country have you been, flying, or living?

Iraq is a fairly civil place today compared to what it was a few years ago, but it's not a safe place by any stretch of the imagination.

As for flying in and out of Afghanistan, which I do, it's hardly an easy place to arrange or operate either...and is most definitely not safe. Upon landing at a particular location there a month ago, my first notification upon coming to rest was of holes in the back of the airplane, that weren't there when we took off.

I have been associated with operations in Iraq, including recently, in which we would have loved to operate our own equipment in and out of the country to move parts, people, and equipment. Even for an organization with authorization to be there and an operational need, obtaining authorization to use our own aircraft in and out held obstacles, and often the most simple, economic solution was to commercial people in, and ship equipment.

You're far better off taking your people to Frankfurt or where ever else you find convenient, and having them commercial to their destination. Good luck moving around the country when they arrive.

 

[avbug]

Soooo Avbug, what have you NOT done in aviation in the past year???

Several things, actually. Is there something you have in mind?

 

[NCherches]

I'd still try www.gotomeeting.com for this one.

 

[Jetdriver69]

We are working through the State Dept to try to get some relief with SFAR 77. Either a 12 month blanket waiver or a complete repeal of the reg. I had to write a quite long justification of why we wanted to fly there, how this trip would benefit the Iraqi people, how it was in the public interest of the United States and what security measures we were taking to deal with MANPADS, anti aircraft fire and diverts. I didn't have to prepare this much when I flew in actually combat in the USAF. In the end, the feds claimed they needed 120 days notice to consider our request. Our original plan was to quickly drop off in Iraq and reposition to Amman, maybe 20 minutes on the ground. The flight to Iraq doesn't bother me as much as the Feds telling us what to do in a foreign country when the leaders of said country invited us and approved our visit. This SFAR only causes inconvenience for US companies, the trip and the business was completed anyway. Euro companies don't have to deal with this BS reg and can fly there to do business as needed.

 

[gret]

If the mission was at the request of the foreign government, why didn't they help? Also, you could of had your company contact their congressional representative and have them cut thru the red tape on your behalf.