Corporate Airlines Attrition!

[belchfire]

My Congratulations to the nine
pilots for June, and the (so far)
six for July that have gone or
are going to bigger and better
things.

Godspeed and good luck in your
future ventures.

As for the rest of us, well, "I have
never seen so many good men
wasted so badly" to quote one of
our CA's quoting from "the Good,
the bad and the ugly".

Where are they going? TSA, CHQ,
ASA, Pace, PSA, Express Jet, Net Jets
and anywhere else that the pay isn't
frozen that operates propellerless
aircraft!

Rock on my friends and again, good
luck!

PS. For any recruiters, there is a
pool of 80 experienced, motivated,
high quality, personable crewmembers
ready for placement!

 

[Flywrite]

Where are they going? TSA, CHQ,
ASA, Pace, PSA, Express Jet, Net Jets
and anywhere else that the pay isn't
frozen that operates propellerless
aircraft!

Propellerless Aircraft!!?? My God, what will they think of next!? What makes them go? Magic?

Seriously though...congrats to all

 

[belchfire]

George??? Is that YOU????????

I wish...he is up to like 11 or 12 on the
sen list in stl...
ok, I wish I had his doh. Except I would
have been here that much longer!

 

[nightrider]

I was in the 4th class ever hired at Corpex. I flew with a couple of the guys that are still there.

I would honestly get as far away from that place as you can.

N

 

[BoilerUP]

Howdy to all my 3C'ers from an ex-LAF guy. Hope many of you I was so fortunate to work with are moving on to bigger and (much) better things.

Its safe to say many FOs are bailing, but what about the CAs? Anybody there moving on? Also have they hired anybody recently, and if so, what were their approx. times?

How fast is the upgrade now? Can't be the 3+ years is has been, not on the jetpig

 

[belchfire]

Boiler my friend do not even think
about it! Get a Grand and then
what?!

Once upon a time in mexico...
oops, that was a movie...

once upon a time, corpex was
described as a "hidden jewel in the
regional airlines" and for a good reason.
You could get hired with less total
time and hit the "grail" of 1000
hrs turbine PIC (again, recall that every
major was hiring till 9/11) and you
actually came out ahead.

Six-eight mo to CA, total
investment to the company was
two years to hit 1000hrs turbine
PIC, majors screaming for pilots
with those golden hours of turbine
time. Let us not forget that this
was also even before the comair
bravery...they may have even still
had some props...and it was three
yrs to upgrade if you were lucky.

Regardless of how poor it is, second
year CA pay was better than 2nd yr
fo pay was then. Throw in the short
time to upgrade, and that you got
hired with less total time, get the 1000
hrs turbine 121 PIC and go to where
ever you wanted before the guy that
took the Comair date even upgraded,
in fact years before.

For anyone that has been asleep for
the last few years the bedtime story
above is no longer the case. Pick the
121 carrier that you go to very, very
carefully. As has always been the
case in this business the very best of
guesses is just and only that. A guess.
In fact the best laid plans are not any
more substantial than a guess.
If you are really, really lucky, the
airline you go to work for will have a
retirement plan. You're going to need
it!

 

[Skyypimp]

CorpEx is Ebil UmKay?

I have to agree with Chrisj32, well said. This is the time for the pilots of CEA to tell management that Bigger things are comming. As one who has been lied to for over 4 years, Way to go to EVERYONE who is jumping off of that sinking ship. And to everyone else who is still there .. Get the HE## out. Even if it is a pay cut initially, you will soon be making more than you are now. As for me, Count ONE more captain that is turning his back on the management of CEA. Good riddance I say. The time has come for you guys to stand up to the CP and DO. Do you really need an ACP who is an A$$?? Take his pay guarantee and give it back to the pilots who deserve it.

No pay raise in over 3 years. I dont think that any of us agreed to that when we had our interview or went through indoc. Good luck guys. I will miss you all. I would say "Keep the clean side up" but we cant affort the soap to clean the planes so !!! .. Just do what you can to leave.

ChrisJ32 are you now changing your screen name to ChrisE145?? LOL Just curious

 

[asarjfo]

What are the pay rates?

 

[belchfire]

Let's just say that the job action
coming at CoEX is starting
from a much higher base.

And we need someone to get
us some kind of representation.

bur-ger-king!

They might find it difficult to fill
uncovered flying, depending on
which ho is in the crewroom.

 

[asarjfo]

Pay Rates for CorpEx?

Isn't that what we are talking about?

 

[asarjfo]

Starting FO Pay: <1500 TT $17.00, 1500-2000TT $18.00, >2000TT $19.00
Starting CA Pay: $28.00, $29.50, $31.50, etc
$1.00 PerDiem

Keep in mind that these rates have been frozen since 2001, so basically whatever pay rate you started at is what you are stuck with (forever?). SO essentially there are two pay rates...$19 for FO, $28 for CA. Based on a 75 hour guarantee.

Hey Belchfire.....what do you mean represent you?? PM me and I may be able to help out on that front.

That's just not right.

 

[belchfire]

$1.00 perdiem...

Even mesa has less disrespect for
the expenses their crews incure
on the road!

Chris32/erj...check your pm

 

[belchfire]

To quote our director of training,
as he hands you a shovel to dig
yourself a deeper hole, "he, he,
he, he."

AirTran has grabbed another one
of our highly qualified pilots.

Congrats to Captain Carl Swenker!

The doors are closing and will
not re-open!

See ya!

 

[Skyypimp]

ChrisJ32

You are wrong about the pay. FO's will make $19.00/hr and CA's will make $28.00/hr. There is no pay raise in sight, according to management. The current pay freeze will be inplace untill all of the people making more than the 2 figures above, are gone. Corporate will finally become a worse place to work than Mesa. I did not think that would ever be possible. If you are looking to interview with CEA, THINK IT OVER MANY TIMES. This is nolonger a steping stone company, It is dying on the vine. Your Better bet would be to work for Trans States, Messaba, Mesa. ANYTHING but Corporate Air.

And change your name arleady Chris. LOL

 

[DisrespectedJ32]

Not only does the pay suck, Crapex has the most inept bunch of idiots to ever hide themselves away in there offices and still have the balls to call themselves management. Ever since this joker Doug Caldwell (a.k.a. Mr. Burns) has decided to come play airline boss, he has never once had the guts to show his face in front of the pilot group to tell us what is going on. It doesn't matter what he says anyway since he is really just a tool!

Not only are the pilots leaving, rumor has it that the CP and DO are trying to get out. I have never seen people bail out of a company so fast in my entire life. It is almost as if everyone is giving themselves pink slips - absolutely amazing and unprecidented!

To loose 30% of your entire employee group in less than 60 days says a lot about the bungling mismanagment of this company. The captains at Crapex are the lowest paid in the entire 121 airline industry! The per-diem is the lowest in the industry! The equipment is shoddy! The code-share with AA (a.k.a. Third Reich) is an absolute joke and can be terminated at any time!

The company will be hiring for one or possibly two July classes JUST FOR ATTRITION. If you are considering coming here, I would suggest that you avoid this hell hole. Or better yet, you can sign on and then leave after IOE, just like the rest of the FO's. That way they will sink 10K into you and you can give them the finger on the way out. Come join us - as you can tell we are having so much fun!

disrespectedJ32

 

[Skyypimp]

Hey DisrespectedJ32


I was just wondering, Do you really think that the CP could get a job somewhere else? I would not think that any other airline out there would really give him much attention if they just looked at his record. As for the DO ! Who knows. But I think you are right, Loosing 30% of the pilot staff in 60 days is something that they should look hard at. The other thing that they should watch is where these pilots are going to.

As far as MR. Caldwell goes, I hope he ROTS in HE!! along with Story. Just Toss Breaden in there and you could have one hell of a roast. I hope this attrition costs them dearly. I will consider it Pay Back for all of the years of lies that I have been told, And some of thoes were to my face.

GL everyone .. Get out As soon as you can.

 

[belchfire]

I don't think that the do or pres are
responsible. In fact they probably came
onboard with the belief that they would
be able to funciton with the full authority
of their positions, rather than in submission
to the beancounter...who can't take a leak
without the owners permission.

I point to the success of TSA and CHQ, and
the opportunities that we should have been
able to capitalize on.

I think that the only way that we will ever see
(in the absence of leadership from the top)
growth is that if the employees of CEA get
representation and force the leadership to pursue
operations that are more lucrative than
EAS.

We need to get every one of the people that
make the airplanes go at corpex back on the
published payscale. Rampers, Sked, mx, dispatch
and the pilots.

No one left behind and take no prisoners.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Starting FO Pay: <1500 TT $17.00, 1500-2000TT $18.00, >2000TT $19.00
Starting CA Pay: $28.00, $29.50, $31.50, etc
$1.00 PerDiem

Keep in mind that these rates have been frozen since 2001, so basically whatever pay rate you started at is what you are stuck with (forever?). SO essentially there are two pay rates...$19 for FO, $28 for CA. Based on a 75 hour guarantee.

Hey Belchfire.....what do you mean represent you?? PM me and I may be able to help out on that front.

OMG, how do you guys do it?!?!

 

[belchfire]

Kingairkiddo

sometimes we don't! I really thought that
I'd be able to get the CDO lines to have
a better QOL...But I can't...never seen a
place where CDO's (standups) go senior...
because of the deterioration of the hard
lines and later releases are messing with
the guys with two leg commutes...

And several senior guys bid last call reserve
cause they live there and don't want to be
bothered.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well from a Jetpig, it is a shame. But you know, even good places go bad. CorpEx was very cool in the 90's. But management has changed, oh yes it has....


In this day and age.. Props are for boats!!!!

 

[belchfire]

Rez

If you were there then, you knew that
the CA's were always on the way out,
and the pay scale didn't matter cause you
wouldn't be there that long. Even though
it was low, CA's made more than other regionals
FO's. Well, not any more and to have had it
frozen since 05/02 is just a slap in the face.

I don't think it matters a darn who is in
the management positions over there so long
as we suffer underfunded ownership things
will not change.

Truely sad that the limit to creativity attached
to any program intended to improve the bottom
line is taking from the employees...and this is
not just pilotwhine...the way they are treating
the other hourly positions is just as bad. As
I said before, the attrition is showing in other
places as well...noone is going to work 6-12hr
days in a row for very long because ownership
says were not going to staff that vacancy.
in fact, they are facing another vacancy for just
that reason. Most people have just had enough.

They are only beginning to reap what they have
sown...and it is sad, unnessasary and avoidable.

 

[belchfire]

Congrats to another fine one
of our IOE CA's that has received a
class date somewhere else!

 

[DrinkSweetTea]

Are they going to other regionals or LCCs/Majors?

 

[belchfire]

Pace, AirTran, TSA, PSA, Pinnicle, CoEX
SWA, and anywhere else that has a place
for us!

I say again...For any recruiters out there
there is a pool of 80...(er 70?...can't keep
track) highly motivated, highly proficient,
dedicated professional aviators up for
grabs.

 

[Skyypimp]

70 Pilots. I dont think we have that many left

Hey there Belch;

I just heard this morning that there are 57 pilots left here at Corp Ex. And that 2 more pilots just got job offers yesterday. CHQ I think. But that will take us down to 55 pilots total. and to top it all off, Breaden says that we are over staffed HA HA,. Now that funny. I say that NOW is the time to bring in a union or we should not pick up OT untill Pay Rates are reinstated.

ACT NOW. Lets bring in some representation.

 

[wings421]

I hope that you guys get something worked out. You're getting the shaft. I live near one of the communities that you guys serve and I'd hate to lose your service. Good luck.

 

[belchfire]

Unsubstantiated rumor has it that management
proposes to stem the flow of attrition off the FO
list by raising the fo pay to $22/hr. CA pay is
rumored to be unaffected...ie, remain the worst
in the industry.

So are we so stupid to see that making more in
better equipment as a 2nd-3rd year fo is not
more reasonable than hanging around as a $28/hr
CA. Does anyone that is in this business believe
that pilots only look at what they will be making
as a FO, not the goal of being a fourstriper?

The 19 seat market is not flipping vaible! If it
is, why is this company struggling so much?
And why did TransStates walk away from it
in 2000? HK never has walked away from
anything that turns a profit!

Get a grip and get some airplanes and codeshares
that can turn a profit. It takes money and some
risktaking, but there is no reason on God's Earth
that corporate airlines could not have capitalized
on the growth in the regional airline sector.

Except that it just wasn't done.

We are at d@mn near 40% attrition in say 3-4
months. They were some pretty smart folks to
see that quickly that the future is not in 19 seat
aircraft.

 

[Skyypimp]

Hey Belch.

Just wondering where you heard that rumor about FO's Making $22/hr ?
I dont think that Management would really give them a $3/hr raise just to keep them and leave the Captains to twist in the wind. I think about 1/2 or more of the FO's are not even ready for upgrade as of yet. I Dont think they have the time to even qualify for an ATP rating.

ALSO

Who says that the company is NOT making money? If we were loosing money, then I do not think that they would even be thinking about $22/hr for the FO's. If you listen to management then YES we are loosing money. But I do not think that Ritchie Would stay with this company if it were doing that badly. I think that the captains should all look at this RUMOR and say . " FINE, If they get a pay raise then there is no more flying until we get ours". If the mechanics can do the same thing in MQY then we can do it in STL. Make NO mistake, The company is not loosing money, Infact they are probably making ONE HEII of alot more then they let on. We Pilots have been accepting this 9/11 SOB story for way too long.
This is just IMO but what they are saying and what they are thinking do not add up.

For some time now the CP has told everyone that we are just making a VERY SMALL profit and any additional expendatures would put us into the RED. Yet I just heard today that not only did they Hire Ron Pye but the D.O. Now has a personal secretary. ?????????? And we are barely making money??????? It Doesn't sound like we are hurting so bad after all. What does Kevin need with an assistant anyway? What does he do all day long that he requires the assistance of someone else???? Can GOLF really be that hard. Or does he need someone to push the gas pedal on the cart???? .

Again just my opinion. Everyone here at Corp Ex should look at this for them selfs and decide if the company is just trying to pull the wool over our eyes. Im not saying that we need to be making $50/hr but it would be nice to make what I signed up for.

 

[acaTerry]

Funny thing happened to me with CorpEx. I went to the AirInc seminar in ATL last year after being out of 121 flying for a while. You know how it is...you have not been flying, and you see airplanes, next thing you know you're giving everyone there a resume. So CorpEx got one of mine.

A week later, the chief pilot (can't remember the name, just the accent) is calling me to come in for an interview. So I told him I was not quite sure that I wanted to take it (commute from PHX to Smyrna? What was I thinking at the seminar?!!).

Anyway, he calls back two days later asking me if I want an interview, but warns me how BAD things are at CorpEx. I'm thinking to myself: "Now the chief pilot/recruiter is simultaneouly asking me to come in and interview while telling me what a lousy place this is to work". That struck me a certain way, and so I politely declined.
Well, he keeps calling every 3 or 4 days for another couple weeks, and eventually gives up, and closes with something to the nature of "OK, you have several type ratings, you'd be wasting your time here. I don't even know why I'm here anymore".
Now I never looked at any honest job as a waste of time, no matter how many types or hours you have. But after hearing his take on the place, I made up my mind easily to not go. I really appreciated his honesty, and I get the feeling that he was the last of his kind there. I ended up going to Trash States, and I'm pretty happy with my decision. Some of the guys really b1tch here, but it's not bad. You just have to look past the "small airline" mentality (they seem afraid to grow in some ways). I'm enjoying TSA so far. Glad I skipped CorpEx, you guys hae my RESPECT (busting your nutz in those 32's) and sympathy. I wish the best for y'all.

 

[DisrespectedJ32]

Regarding the rumor about the $22/hr for flying as an FO - I do not believe it.

Additionally, the $19/hr as a FO is actually right around what folks at other similar regionals make. The big problem is not the FO pay, it is the CA pay. Most guys getting into this racket know that the first year pay everwhere is pretty crappy and are resigned to that fact, knowing that the second year it will go up substaintially.

The problem is that at Corpex the pay doesn't go up and most guys are upset that even if they upgrade they are making far less than the next guy, who is still an FO on a jet somewhere else. In order to solve the high attrition rate among FO's they have to start paying the captains more so that the FO's will have a reason to stay for the eventual upgrade and corresponding pay increase.

Additionally, the job market for pilots has changed in the last few years and the pay differance between an LCC (AirTran, JetBlue, etc.) and a Regional Jet operator has shrunk. This means that the low time instructor type guys can simply skip a place like Corpex and go directly to a job that he believes that he can retire. (Whether or not that will hold up is a different question entirely). Thus many guys see absolutely no reason to stay here regardless of the pay, and having complete idiots in charge doesn't help the situation either.

Regardless, it is definately time for a union - even if the company cries poor. If they can't afford to pay their pilots I recommend that they simply close shop and I am prepared to take that risk.

Disrespected J32 Driver