Convincing HR that You Are Different

[b757driver]

Just looking for a new angle on an old problem. Here's the scoop.
Exceeded competitive requirements for an airline, applied for 6 months, nothing. Garnered a letter of recommendation from one of their pilots and immediately received an application. Turned it in last fall, got "rejected" but not outright - perhaps standard form letter - will keep you on file for one year.
Carried on regardless and updated experience (as requested) with a new type rating and sought other insider recommendations.
One of these, in a conversation, mentioned that the airline had been burned previously by hiring pilots from a company I used to work for. Without going into too many details, this was approx 2 years ago and these guys had several apps going at the same time.
This company is the ONLY one I wish to work for but looks like I am being denied an interview solely based on other's actions. I can appreciate this but of course that does not help my case. I can only convince a recruiter that I am the "right" choice IF I am given the opportunity. After all, that is what the interview is all about.
Not sure how to proceed - give up and move on or keep trying. Their website specifically mentions no calls on status. Having said that, I attended a job fair where I briefly met some of their people. The first question a line pilot asked was why had I not interviewed with them? Good question, I'm guessing because they were burned by some of my former coworkers.
Would a phone call to clarify the predicament, really be the kiss of death? The way I see it now, it appears I have nothing to lose. I did all the right things including follow-up thank you letter and stating why they should take a look at me.
If the reason is as given above, then clearly, there is not much I can do. Wonder if there are others out there that have been in a similar position and what they did? Did you simply move on or were you able to convince the powers that be that you were different? If so, how did you turn the tables?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Dave Siegel]

One of these, in a conversation, mentioned that the airline had been burned previously by hiring pilots from a company I used to work for. Without going into too many details, this was approx 2 years ago

First, what's the name of the company?

Second, it's riduculous that 2 idiots can ruin it for good people like you and me.

Third, keep applying!

Fourth, find someone who knows the people in HR (or more specifically, the person who decides who gets interviewed). Bribe them. Have your buddy bribe them. If you REALLY want the job, work around the system.

 

[b757driver]

First, what's the name of the company?
I cannot divulge that for obvious reasons!
Second, it's riduculous that 2 idiots can ruin it for good people like you and me.
I agree - that's why I asked the question.......
Third, keep applying!
I'd like to do that but after a year of "hanging in there" it gets old very quickly.
Fourth, find someone who knows the people in HR (or more specifically, the person who decides who gets interviewed). Bribe them. Have your buddy bribe them. If you REALLY want the job, work around the system.

Yeah, this may be the best idea.....boy, the things you have to do to get a decent job nowadays!! How come none of this in any "How to Get That Interview" book or even mentioned in job fair seminars?!!!!

Any more suggestions? Without bribes and sleeping with the CP's daughter etc...............

 

[lymanm]

I would venture to say that sleeping with the CP's daughter would NOT be a good plan...

 

[habubuaza]

If you get to the interview just whip out a pack of cigarettes and say.."you guys mind if I smoke, this sort of thing makes me nervous"

 

[LJDRVR]

I Think I know the company you are referring to. Unfortunately, they have a history of reacting to individual failures by changinging their hiring requitements. They modified them to restrict a whole class of pilots after several individuals of a particular background had some issues in training.

Really not much you can do except continue to updape and hope for the best. I'm currently hoping for an interview at a specific company. I'm working on increasing my qualifications, but am also considering taking a more proactive stance. Like you, I'm afraid that will portray me in a negative light. If I haven't been called by June, I think I'll begin to take more agressive action. (Just not yet sure what that will be.)

 

[AA717driver]

Give us a hint: Brown, Purple or Blue... TC

 

[b757driver]

Give us a hint: Brown, Purple or Blue... TC

Neither!

 

[Saabslime]

I'll loan you my lucky superman underoos. HR will certainly think you're different. Worked for me!!

 

[bestpilot]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AA717driver
Give us a hint: Brown, Purple or Blue... TC



Neither!
__________________
b747driver

Neither!

Southwest or Air Tran? You have a 737 type, so now I'm confused which one. Dude, we're like dyin to know.

While you're typing, tell us who the company is you worked for, so that I can steer clear.

If it were me looking for a job, I'd make sure to supply lots and lots of brewskis to lots and lots of the hiring peeps.

Good kharma, dude, good kharma.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Sounds like AirTran. They won't hire any Emery Dudes.

 

[b757driver]

Thanks for all the repsonses - serious and otherwise. Like I said, I cannot divulge the name of either the company I used to work for (they don't exist anymore, so it is no longer relevant anyway) or the one dogging me. Please realize that it IS a delicate issue and I'm not going to enter into a slanging match on a public forum for obvious reasons.

I'm looking for a "smart" way around the problem, one that I have some control over, rather than just be a "victim". I'm aware of similar problems with other carriers and wanted to share information with people who have been in the same boat but eventually beat the system. Any takers?

And no, it's not SWA nor AirTran!

 

[xrayojilp]

It sounds like Southwest to me if you needed a type rating, but if its Airtran I will say they post a list of people with interviews and give line pilot a chance to give you a pre interview shootdown. I guess a lot of airlines do this now. Maybe some dweeb FO you terrorized 5 years ago recognizes your name and is giving you the smackdown. (Ok just kidding, but it could happen)

Good luck

 

[xrayojilp]

PS if the company you want to work for is so retarded as to blackball you for something some other guy did 3 years ago are you really sure you want to work there? Sounds like a stupid corporate culture.

 

[bafanguy]

... but if its Airtran I will say they post a list of people with interviews and give line pilot a chance to give you a pre interview shootdown.

xray,

How does this ultimately work for the applicant ? Some number of these "strikes", and you're out ? Since you've been offered an interview, is it just going through the motions from that point since you're already been blackballed ? If not, why the "list" ?

Is this info brought up at the interview to give the applicant a chance at rebuttal ? Seems like this system is full of pitfalls for an applicant. Someone with an old grudge to settle sees your name on the list and...bingo...score settled ?

No, I'm not looking for a job at AirTran or SWA...just amazed at what the employment process has become.

 

[mar]

You're not just whistlin' Dixie.

...just amazed at what the employment process has become.

Yeah, me too. It's become almost 'cult-like'--to coin a phrase.

My advice to the original poster is this: Ya gotta find someone on the inside to go to bat for ya.

I was in a similiar situation (not really, but sort of...long story).

Anyway, I kept getting brushed off. Strange coincidence, I knew the accountant and he took the chief pilot aside and said, Look he's a good guy, at least talk to him.

But that was a small Mom and Pop 135 outfit. But I still think the logic is the same: Find someone to help your paperwork over the hurdle.

Good luck.

 

[75M]

... but if its Airtran I will say they post a list of people with interviews and give line pilots a chance to give you a pre interview shootdown.

I've never even heard of that happening at AirTran.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Based on my personal experience this is my advice. I think I'm repeating what others have said but here it goes....

1) I would not call hiring. They don't want to hear from the applicants. If they have dropped your application or something like that, then call/wirte to reapply. After that, leave them alone.

2) Get who you know at the company to do some checking. If your "sponser" is a good friend make sure you tell him/her how important it is to you. Buy them dinner. Employees are usually out of touch with hiring after a year or two. Hiring at most carriers has changed since 2000-2002. Often there is extensive, hidden, pre-screening before the actual interview. Your sponsor has to spend their well earned time off to figure out how to help you. Let them know how much you value their time.

3) Don't worry about bugging your sponsor too much. You want them to know your focus is on the company. If they quickly feel burdened by your interest, then they really don't want to help you. They will tell you to back off when you get on them too much, if they care. Your interest will convince them to make the phone calls and visit HR with good things to say about you.

4) What I'm seeing is the difficult carriers are impressed if you are struggling to get an interview for a year or more. DON'T GIVE UP. Don't let the CP's son/daughter getting hired within a month of applying get you down. That BS is always going to happen and has nothing to do with you and me.

5) Stay POSITIVE, even when it looks bleak. Your sponser will like dealing with your requests if you seem happy and motivated about the process. People will avoid you if you are always negative. Remember, working to get the interview is part of the interview.

6) Yes, most of this is waayy out of your control. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. They will usually* respect your attempts to work elsewhere at this point and it will keep you motivated and fresh. You may surprised at who hires you and how good it turns out. You may look more valuable* at your #1 choice if you get hired by #2 or #3 and still pursue the interview at #1. Just don't give up on #1 after landing #2. They will look for that. This last bit assumes you aren't giving up PIC time that may be helpful later for SIC on a larger plane at a carrier that may not last.

*(CAUTION: This may not be true at FedEx or others) Find out if this last bit of advice is advisable at the place you're applying to. FedEx is not hiring folks at the old legacies after being burned before.

 

[ivauir]

Is this info brought up at the interview to give the applicant a chance at rebuttal ? Seems like this system is full of pitfalls for an applicant. Someone with an old grudge to settle sees your name on the list and...bingo...score settled ?

At SWA we see the applicant list preinterview and can submit our opinion of folks we know. I am not sure exactly how this gets used but I imagine they first make sure we are talking about the same person (matching background info) and then carefully read the SWA pilot's opinion and use that info (good or bad) to phrase their questions when they call the applicant's references.
Whenever I see a person I know (all positives so far) I make sure to be very specific in my praise and to give examples of the applicant's behavior that I observed. With a negative I would do the same; I would be very specific. I would expect to get a phone call to clarify my thoughts (like I have with positive's). If this is just a grudge they'll find out and disregard the negative info. If on the other hand the applicant is a bonna fide A hole, they'd find that out too.
I think the company is very wise to solicit our opinions; the process is not about being fair to the applicant or removing "pitfalls". It is about hiring the right folks - the people I would give the thumbs down to would poison our culture and I guarantee I would not be the only one to dog them.

 

[bafanguy]

With a negative I would do the same; I would be very specific. I would expect to get a phone call to clarify my thoughts...

I see. Then the applicant will be told at some point that YOU are the one who offered the negative comments ? "Fair" is for the Boy Scouts. I can only wonder if this methodology can't be described in words other than "fair".