Continental Q400 Flying?

[Pogue Mahone]

One more reason JA will probably buy this airplane is because the non contract pseudo agreement with the pilots currently has one payrate that covers all turboprops. You can rest assured that just like the way he took advantage of his pilots on a "temporary" agreement to fly up to 99 for 50 seat rates that now appears permanent he will have no regrets weighing on his conscious to have HIS pilots flying 70 seat turboprops for a fraction of what others have on the contract with their pilots. It’s a no brainer for him....he just needed the right opportunity (enough starting planes) to make the ramp up worth it. Not only that but Bombardier is now looking at a 100 seater "DASH" that will probably have the same type. Tell me Jerry isn’t the kind of guy who wouldn’t think down the road with a smile on face of HIS pilots flying a hundred seater that is extremely efficient for sixty bucks an hour (for both pilots....80 bucks for an entire crew)? Like I said, it’s a no brainer for him. Whereas not long after his motorcycle accident he seemed to have temporarily found some integrity he’s fallen back into a no moral, no ethics, JUST BUSINESS, don’t give a dam about the employee’s attitude. Hope that goes well on his grave stone!

Stepping down from the soap box.

The Q400 is transport category. He won't be able to use his 135 exemptions like he does on the Bro. That will help the argument that it should establish a new payrate.

Of course having a collective bargaining agreement would help, too.

 

[IHateDaley]

FWIW, 3 ASA Vice Presidents went on a day trip to EWR last Friday.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

FWIW, 3 ASA Vice Presidents went on a day trip to EWR last Friday.

Probably to pick up more crack for Bryan, Charlie, and Scott to smoke back at the GO.

 

[SuperKooter]

Probably to pick up more crack for Bryan, Charlie, and Scott to smoke back at the GO.

Or to lose flying to someone else. Maybe Mesa.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Or to lose flying to someone else. Maybe Mesa.

No, I go with the crack.

 

[SuperKooter]

No, I go with the crack.

Alpa loses flying while giving its members crack to keep them from seeing what they are doing.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Alpa loses flying while giving its members crack to keep them from seeing what they are doing.

You got it Kooter. You must have been a member for a long time. You know all the tricks.

 

[Sedona16]

Correct. It is a proposal for 70 seat flying. I still say it will be skywest with the Q400 though.

Continental eyes turboprops to replace ERJs

Monday June 5, 2006
Continental Airlines confirmed to ATWOnline that it issued an RFP for up to 24 70-seat turboprop aircraft to be operated by a Regional partner. "We are examining options for replacing part or all of the capacity provided by the 69 aircraft which are being withdrawn from our capacity purchase agreement with ExpressJet," said spokesperson Sarah Anthony. "A number of airlines have been invited to submit proposals. We have the time and flexibility to pursue a number of options for our future regional flying needs."
One industry source said the RFP went to turboprop manufacturers ATR and Bombardier as well as a number of "big name [US] Regionals." Citing the confidential nature of the RFP, the source declined to provide names of airlines that may have received the proposal but confirmed that CO is seeking operators who would purchase 24 turboprops and operate them in partnership with the Major. Horizon Air, a wholly owned subsidiary of Alaska Air Group, and Island Air of Hawaii, currently are the only operators of Q400s in the US.

 

[Sig]

Correct the heck outta me if I'm wrong-

The RFP calls for up to 24 planes.

If they were 400s, that's over half a billion dollars worth of machines. This is interesting as heck- in the spirit of this thread we assume they're 400s. Now you have to ask WHO can make that kind of commitment? I understand leasing them, etc. But that's a HUGE amount of inertia there outside of the money; who is currently flying for CAL with a Dash8 cert (same type)? I honestly don't know. There are only a few US operators left flying that type currently; QX, Island, Mesa, and PDT AFIK. Rumor is it would take 30 days of extreme work to bring 400s into our system (beyond the miraculous act of God that it'd take to get them here), and we've been flying them since the airframe was invented. I just flew the oldest/highest cycle Dash 8s in the world a couple of days ago, actually.

Is it that simple to drop RJs off to swap into 70 seat TPs? I have no earthly idea. It doesn't seem so, but maybe it is.

Ask all the same questions with ATRs.

Lots of other variables to consider.

**ahhh, you say Skywest. Eenteresting.

 

[jmt]

I just flew the oldest/highest cycle Dash 8s in the world a couple of days ago, actually.

.

ACtually, WP is reactivating 807. So we get that honor! By the way, when is Continental supposed to decide who will fly these Turboprops?

 

[Sig]

S'all you, mang.

 

[asayankee]

Also....for what it's worth there was a BRAND NEW ATR 72 in Atlanta the other day at the FBO. Apparently the brass were checking out the new product in some demo flights.

 

[Alchemy]

Any execs would be going to IAH if they were in talks with CAL, not EWR.

 

[RJP]

As far as someone saying Bombardier could "ramp-up" production, it's pretty doubtful. Unless CO has some aircraft already spoken for, they keep moving farther down the queue for new Q400s.

Luxair orders three DHC-8-400s

Luxair-Luxembourg Airlines (Luxembourg) has ordered three more fuel efficient Bombardier DHC-8-400 turboprops for the Frankfurt, London, Munich and Paris routes. It has also taken options on three more.

Horizon Air to celebrate their 25th Anniversary

Horizon Air (Seattle/Tacoma) will soon take delivery of Bombardier DHC-8-402 N425QX (msn 4039) which is painted in a special yellow, orange, red and maroon "fade" livery with additional "Celebrating 25" titles for their 25th Anniversary.

 

[belchfire]

.
.

That's just an idiotic statement. Colgan already pays far more than that on the SAAB. They would pay an industry standard rate for 70+ seat turboprops. I have no doubt. They are at their core, fair. But they are running a business not a charity and they will remain competitive.

As for running a ********************ty operation, any complaints I read on here are in fact improving and Colgan's numbers have been at the head of the class. And anyone that says those numbers are good just because we don't use ACARS has their head stuck up where it doesn't belong. You can't fudge numbers THAT much. Plus lets not forget there are plenty of ways to mess with the numbers, even using ACARS.

So keep bashing Colgan...you keep wasting your time and energy doing that and they'll come right up behind you and take all the good new contracts. Why? Because they're the cheapest? Not necessarily. Because they will be giving the carrier what they want. A contract where we take on the risk and pay the expenses with good on-time performance and excellent completion factor (try and find a cancelled flight at Colgan on any given day...doesn't happen too often). Don't think many other regionals are giving them the same deal.

Uh, I think that you miss understood me. While I understand that Colgan may very well deserve bashing from what I have read in these hallowed and scared pages, ******************** hole or not I was not bashing them.

The hour, a ugly sim sked and a few beverages of adult nature perhaps led to a lack of clarity on my part. Please get your blood pressure under control and allow me to restate...

Probably the only carrier that could get CA's for $37/hr in the Q-400 would be Regions Air!

As for fudging numbers I raise the Great Flag of Bovine Excrement. Pilots are mission oriented and do not wish to do carpet dances or even speak to CP's or DO's over the phone. Been there, done that.

Now a warning to the guys that do it. Helping them really won't help you. As a wise FO finally pointed out to me fudging the times when things are screwed up beyond your control only helps the company sweep problems under the rug...like ineffective station personel and inadequate Security staffing. Yet there won't be a bonus for your outstanding on time performance and you may get a carpet dance or terminated if you get caught!

Having made myself perfectly clear I must add that I find your defense of Colgan strange. Are you an owner, union rep or just management?

One other question since you have opened yourself up as a purveyor of blue koolaide...who at colgan would derive what "industry" rates are for 70 seat turboprops? For my part I will bet that it ain't the crews! Bet it won't be Eagles ATR scale either. Probably nearer to Piedmonts -300 scale would be my guess.

I hope that I am wrong. In fact, I dare you-should Colgan get Q-400's -to personally gaurantee those guys and gals an industry leading payscale! Surely someone of your powerful influence could arrange that! In fact that begs the question of why you let skeds push them around so much now?

They are way, way overdue for something good to happen to them as are my friends at Regions.

As for your misunderstanding my previous post, so sorry, please, so sorry...

Now I recommend that you have your doctor check your medications. Something ain't quite right!

 

[wms]

The bid isn't for "Q400 flying", it's for "70 seat turboprop flying". ASA has bid on the contract with the existing ATRs and is rumored to be a front runner. That would give the ATRs a place to go when Delta kicks them out starting in October.

The last CAL RFP was a "done deal" also. Also, the current RFP is for 24 turboprops and ASA has about half that.

 

[SuperKooter]

ASA is getting rid of those atrs so it won't get anything it will just lose more flying thanks to alpa.

 

[ASARJMan]

ASA is getting rid of those atrs so it won't get anything it will just lose more flying thanks to alpa.

And you'll lose your little sucky mgt job at the G/O poopyboy, what's that starting to feel like? Strike vote ballots coming soon. YES vote.

 

[Sedona16]

As far as someone saying Bombardier could "ramp-up" production, it's pretty doubtful. Unless CO has some aircraft already spoken for, they keep moving farther down the queue for new Q400s.

Luxair orders three DHC-8-400s

Luxair-Luxembourg Airlines (Luxembourg) has ordered three more fuel efficient Bombardier DHC-8-400 turboprops for the Frankfurt, London, Munich and Paris routes. It has also taken options on three more.

Horizon Air to celebrate their 25th Anniversary

Horizon Air (Seattle/Tacoma) will soon take delivery of Bombardier DHC-8-402 N425QX (msn 4039) which is painted in a special yellow, orange, red and maroon "fade" livery with additional "Celebrating 25" titles for their 25th Anniversary.

Ummm what part of "ramp up" don’t you understand? Ramp up means to increase production. Who cares if Luxair just ordered three more.....if you "ramp up production" they can fill those three orders as well as any others on order in a shorter period of time thus delivering to new customers who maybe order today in a timely manner. Capiesh?

Examples if you’re still a little confused:


"Q-Series Production Increase:
A strong order intake in the last 18 months has resulted in an increase in the Q400 production rate. It plans to deliver 33 turboprops in fiscal
2005/06 vs 20 expected this year. As of August 31, 2004, the Bombardier Q400 firm order book stood at 114 aircraft, of which 85 had been delivered. "



http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/...e.961003b.html


Airlines that didn't order the 787 early or who ordered the A350 instead now are clamoring for 787s to keep themselves competitive with airlines that bought the 787 when it was available.
Now Boeing's 787 production lines, at present rates, are sold out through 2011. Other orders are scheduled for delivery through 2016. More than two years before the first 787 is scheduled to enter service, Boeing has won orders and commitments for nearly 400 of the planes.
TIGHT-LIPPED
Boeing has been talking with its suppliers since early last fall about ramping up their production rates to meet the demand. The suppliers' buy-in is especially critical because Boeing is depending on them for a large share of the actual aircraft construction.
The company is tight-lipped about its production rates and the process of deciding whether to adjust them up or down. Boeing, in fact, doesn't plan a public announcement of its decision, said Yvonne Leach, a Boeing spokeswoman.
"We don't discuss production rates," she said.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9800E2DF1539F933A15755C0A9609582 60

 

[RJP]

Wow, that was an eye-opener. You must've gotten a merit badge in sarcasm when you were a cub scout. Maybe now you can tell us how they get spare parts and engines quicker too. Just ramp it up. Right?
Much aloha to you for the lovely response.

 

[Sedona16]

Wow, that was an eye-opener. You must've gotten a merit badge in sarcasm when you were a cub scout. Maybe now you can tell us how they get spare parts and engines quicker too. Just ramp it up. Right?
Much aloha to you for the lovely response.

Got the merit badge but never made eagle scout. I did make it past "cub" though.

 

[ERJFO]

My prediction.....this will go to SkyWest. JA has said in the past he is interested in the Q400 but would need enough airplanes to justify the additions to the training dept, MX, etc. With Continental putting the bid out for 24 initially and JA once again affirming in his last conference call that he is looking at building on the already good reputation Skywest had with Continental (operated EMBz out of Houston but had to pull out because the bro wasnt the right plane) I think its a done deal. Also this is just the sort of move SGU would make to show the industry how they will buck the trends (buy turboprops) to pick up money wherever it is to be made. Not only that but once they got the training implimented i could see them picking up an additional ten Q400 to operate/replace out of SCL and DEN. Theres my two bits.

Having said all that I think SGU and JA are turning into greedy businessmen who are pushing their employees too far while hoarding all the money for themselves. Off the soapbox.

My Prediction: You are wrong.

 

[ERJFO]

FWIW, 3 ASA Vice Presidents went on a day trip to EWR last Friday.

If they went to Houston, where CAL has offices that would be a little more impressive. Maybe they just wanted some good french toast from the soup nazi in the C-1 employee cafateria.

 

[asayankee]

If they went to Houston, where CAL has offices that would be a little more impressive. Maybe they just wanted some good french toast from the soup nazi in the C-1 employee cafateria.

They went to EWR the other day to speak with some of the execs and and operations people specific to EWR. They are on their way to Houston either Thursday or Friday. I can't specifically remember what day they said. They also had a BRAND NEW ATR 72-500 on property the other day for some evaluations. They seem to be going after the Continental flying pretty hard. From what we were told since ExpressJet kept the airframes, CO now wants bids on a mix of 50 seat RJ AND large turboprop flying.

 

[wms]

FWIW, 3 ASA Vice Presidents went on a day trip to EWR last Friday.

Looks like another deal bites the dust. Not that I don't have confidnce in our VP's.

 

[ERJFO]

They went to EWR the other day to speak with some of the execs and and operations people specific to EWR. They are on their way to Houston either Thursday or Friday. I can't specifically remember what day they said. They also had a BRAND NEW ATR 72-500 on property the other day for some evaluations. They seem to be going after the Continental flying pretty hard. From what we were told since ExpressJet kept the airframes, CO now wants bids on a mix of 50 seat RJ AND large turboprop flying.

What executives are up in EWR? No one that I can think of. Why would VPs go talk to ops people specific to EWR flight ops anyway? Maybe the VP of flight ops would go up there but I think even that is a strech, what are they going to do? Talk to they guys who run ramp tower? The CAL people that would provide answers about Newark would be in Houston anyway. Unless they met with EWR approach or something (and I don't know why VPs would be doing that) I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying EWR is a stupid place to start and your story about people going to IAH appears to be a cover up for a bad lie. In response to having a new ATR out in ATL: 2 months ago there was a BRAND NEW EMB-190 at the ExpressJet MX hanger in IAH and I haven't seen anything on the bid pack yet.

 

[asayankee]

What executives are up in EWR? No one that I can think of. Why would VPs go talk to ops people specific to EWR flight ops anyway? Maybe the VP of flight ops would go up there but I think even that is a strech, what are they going to do? Talk to they guys who run ramp tower? The CAL people that would provide answers about Newark would be in Houston anyway. Unless they met with EWR approach or something (and I don't know why VPs would be doing that) I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying EWR is a stupid place to start and your story about people going to IAH appears to be a cover up for a bad lie. In response to having a new ATR out in ATL: 2 months ago there was a BRAND NEW EMB-190 at the ExpressJet MX hanger in IAH and I haven't seen anything on the bid pack yet.

Settle down. I'm not trying to flame. The info came directly from our President and VP of flight ops. Who specifically they met with they didn't say, but according to them they were in EWR meeting with some "CO management" and were heading to IAH to meet with others. Take it for what it's worth. About the ATR, hey I know it means NOTHING. Until it takes off for it's first revenue flight, it donesn't mean SQUAT!!! The ASA folks know that better than most these days.....hahaha. dang I hate management!!!

 

[MELIT]

Settle down. I'm not trying to flame. The info came directly from our President and VP of flight ops. Who specifically they met with they didn't say, but according to them they were in EWR meeting with some "CO management" and were heading to IAH to meet with others. Take it for what it's worth. About the ATR, hey I know it means NOTHING. Until it takes off for it's first revenue flight, it donesn't mean SQUAT!!! The ASA folks know that better than most these days.....hahaha. dang I hate management!!!

CAL does'nt want asa to do the flying.

 

[asayankee]

CAL does'nt want asa to do the flying.

I can't say that I blame them! I don't think I would want us to it either

 

[Kingzrt]

Dude, what world do you live in?
I have never seen so engines blow up on takeoff just watching those guys in IAH. I don't know about you but without ACARS I could Fudge the numbers as much as I wanted. With Acars it'a little harder. Excellent time and completion factor! I want some the sh8t you're smoking.

Delta blew an engine on take off in LGA last week i guess they must have a colgan name on them too. Do you think only Colgan blows engines meat stick??