Continental is recalling Pilots

[pilotgolfer]

You'll have to explain that. Are you saying the UAL furloughee would not want the job?? I am not making a seniority statement here I am saying get OUR pilots back to work.

I'd say its safe to say that they wouldn't want the job on the CAL new hire pay or benefits. Now if they were brought in with longevity, thats a different story. One year on crappy wages was enough for most of us.

 

[AWACoff]

I'd say its safe to say that they wouldn't want the job on the CAL new hire pay or benefits. Now if they were brought in with longevity, thats a different story. One year on crappy wages was enough for most of us.

Yeah, let's hire furloughed United guys and pay them MORE than many current CAL pilots...LOL! Nice one, you gonna be here all night???

 

[ATRCA]

I'd say its safe to say that they wouldn't want the job on the CAL new hire pay or benefits. Now if they were brought in with longevity, thats a different story. One year on crappy wages was enough for most of us.

Yeah, well, that aint gonna happen. I can hear them giggling on Smith St now.

 

[thor2j]

The furloughed UAL and CAL pilots will be recalled based on XXX before any hiring off the street. Why is this an issue? The snapshot was taken when the merger was announced. It's done...there's nothing else that can be done. Even the 15 pilots recalled at CAL and will be active in a month aren't included.

It's an issue because nobody has said officially when the snapshot was taken. We can all jump up and down and say "day of merger announcement", which it may be, but until it's official and the SLI is done nobody can say. Not in 70 years has anybody on the property working been put behind somebody on furlough. It will all play out in about 2 years.

 

[pilotgolfer]

Yeah, let's hire furloughed United guys and pay them MORE than many current CAL pilots...LOL! Nice one, you gonna be here all night???

Its not that far-fetched. When the SLI is done, there will be ten year UAL pilots that are junior to the 3 year CAL pilots....but the UAL pilots will be getting paid more. I think its been done in the past where the MEC has negotiated to get the furloughed pilots credit for time served on the street. There will be a whole lot of United guys on the SLI that will bid behind the CAL pilots but be getting paid for more years of service.

Also, the Jets for Jobs LOA didn't even make the UAL pilots be on first year pay at the commuter. The difference in pay was paid by United under the agreement. The same could be negotiated with hiring at CAL.

 

[RT8VA]

I agree with pilot golfer and I am a cal pilot, give longevity for all furloughs for pay purposes. Delta NW did it for the NWA furloughs and it went a long way to smoothing that end of the seniority list. Dont you think the UAL guys deserve some kind of break, if they make a few more bucks then me till were all on year 12 I am not losing any sleep over it and we will have better unity. Plus they have some incentive to come back if they can have a good wage at hopefully a more stable company. Just one guys opinion take it for what its worth.

Lets start working together.

 

[pilotgolfer]

I agree with pilot golfer and I am a cal pilot, give longevity for all furloughs for pay purposes. Delta NW did it for the NWA furloughs and it went a long way to smoothing that end of the seniority list. Dont you think the UAL guys deserve some kind of break, if they make a few more bucks then me till were all on year 12 I am not losing any sleep over it and we will have better unity. Plus they have some incentive to come back if they can have a good wage at hopefully a more stable company. Just one guys opinion take it for what its worth.

Lets start working together.

Just so you know where I'm coming from...I'm 300 from the bottom of the UAL list. I will be around 300 from the bottom of the SLI. I only got 2 paychecks at the second year rate before getting furloughed. I would love to fly the 737NG out of EWR but I can't afford to do it at the first year CAL rate. I would consider doing it at the second year rate, though. I think when the SLI gets done and I get recalled 2-3 years from now, I'd love to think it would be at the 4-5th year rate.

The guys that really need to get the longevity are the 8-10 year United people who have been furloughed twice. I hope it gets negotiated for them to get their original hire date as their longevity (with full credit for the furlough time x2). Thats the only way these guys will be able to swallow what is going to happen to them in the integration. It shouldn't matter to the CAL guys what these people are making. The CAL people will be bidding ahead of them for the rest of their careers...they will get over it.

 

[stillflyn]

How have all of you guys decided that the UAL furloughed pilots will be stapled to the bottom of the list? Longevity and date of hire is now taken into account with a SLI. Tell me how a 11 year pilot with 7 years on the property at UAL is going to be junior to a 3 year pilot at CAL?

All of this is going to go to arbitration or be decided in the courts. I'm sure that the UAL lawyers will make a good case that all 1400 UAL pilots were furloughed and an entire fleet was parked to make sure this "merger" would get passed the DOJ.

I don't pretend to know the outcome of the SLI but I'm pretty sure that all 1400 UAL pilots won't be on the bottom of the list.

Stillflyn

 

[Beaver_Liquors]

Its not that far-fetched. When the SLI is done, there will be ten year UAL pilots that are junior to the 3 year CAL pilots....but the UAL pilots will be getting paid more. I think its been done in the past where the MEC has negotiated to get the furloughed pilots credit for time served on the street. There will be a whole lot of United guys on the SLI that will bid behind the CAL pilots but be getting paid for more years of service.

Also, the Jets for Jobs LOA didn't even make the UAL pilots be on first year pay at the commuter. The difference in pay was paid by United under the agreement. The same could be negotiated with hiring at CAL.

I agree with everything you have said, it would stupid for CAL to hire off the street with 1400 UAL furloughs. Also absolutely CAL should be giving you Longevity in pay for any UAL guys/gals, especially after the actual legal merger is completed at the end of the year. And for the record I am a junior cal guy, that would not mind a furloughed UAL guy making "more", like you said, thats going to happen anyways.

 

[BID]

How have all of you guys decided that the UAL furloughed pilots will be stapled to the bottom of the list? Longevity and date of hire is now taken into account with a SLI. Tell me how a 11 year pilot with 7 years on the property at UAL is going to be junior to a 3 year pilot at CAL?

All of this is going to go to arbitration or be decided in the courts. I'm sure that the UAL lawyers will make a good case that all 1400 UAL pilots were furloughed and an entire fleet was parked to make sure this "merger" would get passed the DOJ.

I don't pretend to know the outcome of the SLI but I'm pretty sure that all 1400 UAL pilots won't be on the bottom of the list.

Stillflyn

Where do we start with this one?

 

[AWACoff]

Continental is not going to hire a furloughed United guy off the street and pay them "longevity" when they can hire any of 10,000+ furloughed (don't forget about all the regional guys trying to get out) pilots at first year pay.

 

[UALRATT]

Continental is not going to hire a furloughed United guy off the street and pay them "longevity" when they can hire any of 10,000+ furloughed (don't forget about all the regional guys trying to get out) pilots at first year pay.

Yes, they would. The UAL furloughs will have two seniority numbers. A United and a Continental. They will be hired to pick up the slack at Continental just like the "jets for jobs" with the regionals (two sen #s, and does cost a dime extra for the regional). UAL will supplement their pay to some higher level above first year pay, contingent on a successful merger. If the merger is then approved and longevity was successfully negotiated, they get a pay raise. If the merger falls apart or longevity gets shot down in the event of a successful merger, they simply end up with a paycut, i.e., at what ever pay level they happen to be at CO or UA respectively. There's been all kinds of precedences set, beginning long before you and I entered the trade. Put simple, this just happens to be another.

 

[AWACoff]

Yes, they would. The UAL furloughs will have two seniority numbers. A United and a Continental. They will be hired to pick up the slack at Continental just like the "jets for jobs" with the regionals (two sen #s, and does cost a dime extra for the regional). UAL will supplement their pay to some higher level above first year pay, contingent on a successful merger. If the merger is then approved and longevity was successfully negotiated, they get a pay raise. If the merger falls apart or longevity gets shot down in the event of a successful merger, they simply end up with a paycut, i.e., at what ever pay level they happen to be at CO or UA respectively. There's been all kinds of precedences set, beginning long before you and I entered the trade. Put simple, this just happens to be another.

That all sounds nice. But tell me "why" CAL would hire a UAL furlough over another candidate. What's in it for CAL management? I don't disagree that hiring UAL furloughs is the right thing to do. Our management only cares about what will save them pennies (reference our new checklist with the "before push to the line". The Check Airman that created it told me it was done to save 4 seconds). If it costs more to hire a UAL furlough, I don't see why they would do it.

 

[ATRCA]

That all sounds nice. But tell me "why" CAL would hire a UAL furlough over another candidate. What's in it for CAL management? I don't disagree that hiring UAL furloughs is the right thing to do. Our management only cares about what will save them pennies (reference our new checklist with the "before push to the line". The Check Airman that created it told me it was done to save 4 seconds). If it costs more to hire a UAL furlough, I don't see why they would do it.

They won't. You and I both know how CAL operates. The UAL guys don't understand that CAL is managed TO THE PENNY! They will not "do the right thing" if it means extra costs. End of story, plain and simple. This is all pie in the sky and I understand why guys would like to see it. Unless CAL can do this without incurring additional costs they won't. Not only won't they, they'll probably know what's coming and refuse to even negotiate or they'll demand something in return at which point CALALPA walks out and say's "we tried"....

 

[Bigoober]

Ditto....sounds like too much faith in management.

 

[rumrunner300]

That all sounds nice. But tell me "why" CAL would hire a UAL furlough over another candidate. What's in it for CAL management?

I have NO faith in any management with one exception.... they will put
$$$$ in their pockets. Be sure of one thing, Tilton will be first in line at the trough and I am sure that the CAL brass will be willing to play monkey see, monkey do, in regard to Tilton's largesse.

The key to the scenario is getting the two MEC's to exert enough pressure to convince management that this is a good idea in the long run. The wild card is whether the furloughee's get sold out for $$ AGAIN.

 

[bluefin]

I have NO faith in any management with one exception.... they will put
$$$$ in their pockets. Be sure of one thing, Tilton will be first in line at the trough and I am sure that the CAL brass will be willing to play monkey see, monkey do, in regard to Tilton's largesse.

The key to the scenario is getting the two MEC's to exert enough pressure to convince management that this is a good idea in the long run. The wild card is whether the furloughee's get sold out for $$ AGAIN.

Don't worry, we will. If CO hires it will be, UAL furloughees. They will be brought in as a new hire with ALPA protection(whatever thats worth) ie they will not have a probationary year since 99.7% of U furloughees have already served the year and alpa will defend them against management. But what ever newhire policy is for CO, furloughees, i.e. 6 months for benies etc. will apply. Straight from the MEC.

 

[RT8VA]

the fact is that by the time they get through the 147 recalls well probably be close to the end of the year and an approval of the merger by the government. Assuming that happens about the pace of the Delta merger every one will be "united pilots" and putting an order to the list will be all that is left.

 

[thor2j]

the fact is that by the time they get through the 147 recalls well probably be close to the end of the year and an approval of the merger by the government. Assuming that happens about the pace of the Delta merger every one will be "united pilots" and putting an order to the list will be all that is left.

I'll bet you a beer that it will take a minimum of 1 1/2 years before you ever see a joint contract accepted by both sides. Then there will be a 1-2 year battle over SLI (with appeals and all, ala USAIR). By then, finally people will be retiring and everybody will be back.

 

[RT8VA]

I will bet the beer, and toast to whoever is right. The only reason I think it will go faster is because their is a lot of money waiting to be handed out to people who can make the pace go faster. I dont think either side wants a US air fight, no one has or ever will win on either side of it.