contacting ground tower etc.

[comander]

I used to call first example cessna1234, wait for there response and then say my intentions.
Lately Ive been hearing ground cessna 1234 at kilo with information tango, requesting taxi.

or tower mooney 1234
mooney1234 go ahead

mooney1234 holding short of rwy 01 ready for take off

or the whole message?
tower mooney1234 holding short of 01 ready for departure?

whats the correct way to establish radio contact?

 

[unreal]

Simply say your request in one transmission. If the controller is busy, making two transmissions is only going to make the frequency more congested and probably make the controller a bit annoyed.

From the AIM:

4-2-3. Contact Procedures
a. Initial Contact.
1. The terms initial contact or initial callup means the first radio call you make to a given facility or the first call to a different controller or FSS specialist within a facility. Use the following format:
(a) Name of the facility being called;
(b) Your full aircraft identification as filed in the flight plan or as discussed in paragraph 4-2-4, Aircraft Call Signs;
(c) When operating on an airport surface, state your position.
(d) The type of message to follow or your request if it is short; and
(e) The word "Over" if required.
EXAMPLE-
1. "New York Radio, Mooney Three One One Echo."
2. "Columbia Ground, Cessna Three One Six Zero Foxtrot, south ramp, I-F-R Memphis."
3. "Miami Center, Baron Five Six Three Hotel, request V-F-R traffic advisories."

 

[MauleSkinner]

On the other hand, if the request is going to be lengthy (I'm holding short, ready to go, but need to request something like westbound for thunderstorms before I turn north on course), I'll establish contact first, and then make the request on the second communication.

Fly safe!

David

 

[kf4amu]

Don Brown has a column or two addressing this as one of his pet peeves. I used to do the 2 transmission thing...mostly because I was timid.

But as a 911 dispatcher, nothing makes me more mad that units that call me and wait for me to respond before telling me what they want...as if I'm not listening to the channel. Even if I WAS busy and didnt answer them, if they repeat themselves and I acknowledge it, its still only 3 transmissions...one less than the back and forth back and forth crap that makes no sense. But thats FWIW, we dont follow the FAR/AIM...

 

[Tonala2k]

Here's one.

Initial contact 1: (I like this one when not too busy)
CE) Houston Center, skyhawk-one-two-tree, five miles south Eagle lake VORTAC at six thousand five hundred, request VFR flight following to College Station Easterwood.
HC) november-one-two-tree, Houston center, squawk two-four-fife-two and indent.
CE) november-one-two-tree, squawk two-four-fife-two, ident
HC) november-one-two-tree, say type of aircraft
CE) Cessna 172 equipment G
HC) Skyhawk-one-two-tree, radar contact two mile south eagle lake VORTAC, maintain at or bellow eight thousand for traffic.
CE) Skyhawk-one-two-tree, at or bellow eight thousand

Initial Contact 2: (when very busy)
CE) Houston Center, Skyhawk-one-two-tree, request for flight following.
HC) "VFR traffic, stand by;" No reply at all; "Aircraft calling say again" (then I'd start the previous conversation); "Unable flight following at this time;" I even got this one "Unable flight following at this time, maintain frequency for traffic advisories." Our controllers really do everything they can for pilots out here. Likewise, I know many pilots who, when it's busy, cancel IFR well before their destination and maintain flight following, weather permitting.

What do you guys think? Are both of those initial transmissions appropriate?

 

[kf4amu]

I like that and it makes sense, but as Don Brown has said a few times, you can't tell if a controller is busy from frequency congestion. If he has a controller helping him, he may be rapid firing instructions on the radio and be just loafing along workload wise. But if he's by himself, dead air on the radio is probably being used on the landline for coordination.

 

[Kream926]

just think about when you break it all up like in your example

xxx ground cessna bla bla bla

cessna bla bla bla xxx tower

xxx grnd cessna bla bla bla at yata yata yataa with bravo ready to taxi bla

cessna bla bla bla taxi to yatta yatta yatta yataa

taxi to bla bla bla cessna bla bla



5 transmissions

when you do it all at once

xxx ground cessna bla bla at yatta yataa ready to taxi south bound with bravo

cessna bla bla bla taxi to where and so

taxi to so and so cessna bla bla

only 3

 

[AirBadger]

You skipped over the yatta yatta! The yatta yatta is the best part.

 

[Lazy8]

(e) The word "Over" if required.

What or who dictates if the word "Over" is required at the end of the transmission? One of the tower controllers uses it occasionally where I work if things get busy, but none of the other controllers use it.

g

 

[down2mins]

In CMH tower yesterday, we asked one of the guys about this. He said it depends on the frequency / if you hear they're busy. Said for clearance to just call up first with call sign, then wait for a reply before going into your request. As for ground, "them, you, info, clearance, ready to taxi" and be done with it. Same with tower. Only other time they wanted a callsign only first transmission was headed back inbound, talking to approach. I've done it different ways at different airports, but that was straight from the mouth of a 25 yr supervisor.

 

[mhcasey]

I don't have a ton of experience, but down here in Austin I will say everything I need to on initial contact with ground or tower (how long does it take to say Cessna1234 at _ ready to taxi with _, or Cessna1234 holding short of _ ready for takeoff?), but usually just give them my callsign if I'm calling clearance or approach.

I used to just throw everything at clearance, but everytime I would get a response back "aircraft calling standby" followed by "repeat everything you just said," or "cessna1234 what's your destination and at what altitude?" More or less the same thing for approach.

If I hear a few "ya'll have a good one's" followed by silence, I know they're not too busy so I'll just throw it all at approach, but clearance seems to be a bit slower to acknowledge everything. Can any ATC guys explain why this might be?

That's just my two cents from class C. Does anyone have more experience in Class B?

 

[SSDD]

Air traffic controllers are trained to listen so trust them to know and do their jobs. Let them know what you want right off the bat and they'll get it 95% of the time.

...Clearance, Cessna 12345 to the north practice area with Hotel.

...Ground, Citation 789XX, at the Jet Center, taxi with Alpha.

...Tower, Cherokee 567TA, 7 miles southeast, with Novenber, for touch and goes.

The main thing is to rehearse what you're going to say before you key the mike. That way you'll avoid all the ohs, and ahs, that a lot of pilots seem to stumble over.

 

[80for80]

What the pros say when you switch over from ground to tower and there are planes ahead of you waiting to takeoff is...... "Tower Eagle 1234 is with you, ready for takeoff in sequence". That way the tower already knows you are ready for takeoff when you reach the #1 position.

 

[minitour]

What the pros say when you switch over from ground to tower and there are planes ahead of you waiting to takeoff is...... "Tower Eagle 1234 is with you, ready for takeoff in sequence". That way the tower already knows you are ready for takeoff when you reach the #1 position.

I've heard from several ATC'ers that they don't want to know this. All you're getting is "*sigh* roger, hold short" anyway.

Any ATC folks out there care one way or another?

-mini

 

[SPilot]

The ATC guys at my local airport, a very busy one, have issued a notice to local FBOs and schools, encouraging us to shut the ******************** up if we *know* that there is traffic in front of us waiting for departure, or traffic on short final. They dont need to spend half their time saying "roger, hold short" when it is obvious to everyone. They dont need to know that there are five guys ready behind the first guy on the intersection/taxiway, and so we should only call ready for departure to the tower when we see that there is no traffic on final, and no airplanes in front of us on the taxiway.

There was an accident caused by a student pilot calling ready to the tower while in line behind another airplane. Tower cleared him for takeoff, and as he rushed out to the runway, his wingtip touched the other airplane, and it turned it into it with the propeller hitting first... so at least for students, it should be emphasized to wait in line, and dont rush it.

What the pros say when you switch over from ground to tower and there are planes ahead of you waiting to takeoff is...... "Tower Eagle 1234 is with you, ready for takeoff in sequence". That way the tower already knows you are ready for takeoff when you reach the #1 position.

 

[SSDD]

I think that was a sarcastic put down of American Eagle pilots...

 

[minitour]

I think that was a sarcastic put down of American Eagle pilots...

Haven't heard many Eagle calls like that, but I'll keep listening for 'em.

-mini

 

[dalegribble]

humble suggestion

Here's one.

Initial contact 1: (I like this one when not too busy)
CE) Houston Center, skyhawk-one-two-tree, five miles south Eagle lake VORTAC at six thousand five hundred, request VFR flight following to College Station Easterwood.
HC) november-one-two-tree, Houston center, squawk two-four-fife-two and indent.
CE) november-one-two-tree, squawk two-four-fife-two, ident
HC) november-one-two-tree, say type of aircraft
CE) Cessna 172 equipment G
HC) Skyhawk-one-two-tree, radar contact two mile south eagle lake VORTAC, maintain at or bellow eight thousand for traffic.
CE) Skyhawk-one-two-tree, at or bellow eight thousand

Initial Contact 2: (when very busy)
CE) Houston Center, Skyhawk-one-two-tree, request for flight following.
HC) "VFR traffic, stand by;" No reply at all; "Aircraft calling say again" (then I'd start the previous conversation); "Unable flight following at this time;" I even got this one "Unable flight following at this time, maintain frequency for traffic advisories." Our controllers really do everything they can for pilots out here. Likewise, I know many pilots who, when it's busy, cancel IFR well before their destination and maintain flight following, weather permitting.

What do you guys think? Are both of those initial transmissions appropriate?

Quickly, on #2 tell atc where you are altitude and position briefly. Quick concise calls get you more.

Call #1 though needs work.....Use the facility name, your call sign, then just say 5 south of Eagle Lake (he knows what it is a VOR already)then say at 6 point five, then ask for flight following(don't need to add VFR) to xyz, Here I have cut out several seconds of tx time which to a busy controller means a hell of a lot of good will. It will get you better service and may be the difference between getting service and not getting it. He will ask your type if he agrees to provide flight following. This is petty, I agree but every second of non essential speech free's up the controller's time and the frequency congestion. Also, it is not necessary to read back the ident command. ATC knows pretty quickly if you got that part by the visual on his display.

A good suggestion already mentioned, is to think about what you will say prior to saying it. It is the best way to make radio calls.

 

[Sampson]

The word over

What or who dictates if the word "Over" is required at the end of the transmission? One of the tower controllers uses it occasionally where I work if things get busy, but none of the other controllers use it.

g

The use of the word "Over" is used when communicating via HF radio or VHF to a facility such as ARINC where you have a phone patch going and are talking to the company but the third party, "the radio operator" who is listening to the conversation needs to know when one conversation ends and listens for the word 'Over" then switches the transmitter over to the other side so the other party can communicate.