Conspiracy theories?

[Timebuilder]

Mar mentioned the Trilateral commission and the JFK assisination the other day, and I see that CNN has a special on JFK, too.

Today, I was sent a URL that should keep the conspiracy buffs among us busy:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/

 

[Typhoon1244]

From Abovetopsecret.com's Aircraft Projects section:
In September 1994, an unusual aircraft was seen over Amarillo, Texas meeting the description of the A-17. The plane was dumping fuel, preparing for an emergency landing. On a scanner, the pilot, using the callsign "Omega", was heard reporting a malfunction. At the time, two F-111s were acting as chase planes.

Assuming that the super-secret "A-17" exists...

(1) ...what was it doing over Amarillo in broad daylight?

(2) ...why would a super-secret test pilot be broadcasting over any frequency a commercial scanner could pick up?

(3) ...F-111 chase planes? (Couldn't they find something less efficient?)

 

[Mogus]

Answers...

1) I dunno. Good point.

2) With widely available modifications, most amateur radio recievers and scanners can pick up any frequency, including cell phone frequencies.

3) Conspiracy theorists wouldn't know a 747 from a Brasilia...

 

[mar]

Thank you Timebuilder...

...for using my 'name', The Trilateral Commission and the JFK assisination in the same sentence...

For cryin' out loud.

Haven't you realized by now that this is precisely how crazy stories get started?

Actually I kinda get the feeling you're trying to draw me into a little tirade on the TLC and politics.

Unh-unh. Ain't gonna happen. Wouldn't be prudent--not at this juncture.

In fact I've sworn off politics and religion for the time being.

I need a break man. Cut me some slack.

 

[bobbysamd]

Trilateralists

Mar mentioned the Trilateral commission and the JFK assisination the other day, and I see that CNN has a special on JFK, too.

Seeing mention of the Trilateral Commission takes me back to my earliest days in radio. My first full-time job was more than thirty years ago at a small talk station in Denver. We had a cadre of callers who believed very strongly in conspiracy theories. They believed that a "cabal" of organizations, including the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission, were conspiring to bring down the United States and bring it under totalitarian domination. Included in this noxious lot was something called "1313," which had some connection to the University of Chicago. "1313" was the street address number of the University of Chicago. Also, some group called the "Bilderbergers". I recall one of our hosts asking a caller if a "Bilderberg" was a new kind of hamburger.

These callers did not want to accept that the Trilateral Commission and Council on Foreign Relations were only high-fallutin debating societies and think tanks and nothing else. Of course, they believed the United Nations was all tied in with these other organizations.

Then, we had one regular caller who was an artist. He constructed a diorama of the Kennedy Assasination. It was really amazing to see and was featured in the newspaper. He conducted a vast amount of research, including an interview with an early Kennedy Assasination conspiracy theorist, Penn Jones. It made for an interesting show - many years before such discussions became mainstream talk radio fodder. So, by the time Oliver Stone put out JFK, I was already well-versed on such individuals as Clay Shaw and Jim Garrison, not to mention, of course, Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby.

Should be an interesting week of TV.

 

[Timebuilder]

I recall about ten years ago hearing a Philly talk show host admonishing listeners that he would not take ANY calls about the Bilderbergers, the CFR, and the Trilateral commission.

Apparently, he was fed up listening to these folks.

I thought Mar would enjoy a discussion of these issues, since they got a mention in one of his posts.

I guess I thought wrong.

 

[bobbysamd]

Seconded

I recall about ten years ago hearing a Philly talk show host admonishing listeners that he would not take ANY calls about the Bilderbergers, the CFR, and the Trilateral commission.

Apparently, he was fed up listening to these folks.

Thirty years ago, our talk shows received call after call from people promoting conspiracies involving the CFR, the Trilateralists, the Bilderbergs and 1313. They were very well organized. They were primarily older people with enough time on their hands to read the literature.

They would call my show, too. I was prepared, after hearing them over and over while running the board for other hosts. When they came on my show, I gave them about thirty seconds and went "click."

 

[Timebuilder]

I remember...

Back then, there was no "two minute limit" on calls.

You could have a really interesting call go on for a half hour, or just say "Sorry, Albert, but we've heard about that before...click!".

We had a couple of decades with a host who was really into the whole "Federal Reserve" thing. That used to bring out the CFR guys, too.

 

[mar]

Yin and Yang; Ebb and Flow

Ah, the oscillations of the Universe...

As I gracefully (I hope) bow out of the political and religious arena of Flightinfo, it seems Bobby has made an equally graceful appearence.

Bobby, you surprise me. I have always been impressed by your consistent 'non-appearence' in any political thread.

I just figured you either have no opinions (unlikely given your posts on other topics) or you simply kept them to yourself.

I appreciate those with a quiet resolve but if this is a new direction for you then I wish you good luck no matter if you're left or right--or a blasted fence sitter!

Timebuilder--Thanks for thinking of me but I'm not the same flavor of conspriacy nut as the people who put up websites and call into radio shows.

After all, you'll recall, I was one of the first to go Code Red on Denver the Chemtrail guy and finally urge him to seek help.

But since we're talking about it (<gag>: hook, line and sinker...) I'm the sort of conspiracy nut who is quite rational and analytical and sees inconsistencies from government and corporations. I see either hugely complicated explanations for things that seem simple or, on the other hand, oppressive silence.

The Trilateral Commission, for example (<sigh>...I can't believe I'm writing this...) is indeed *more* than just a think tank or debating club.

First of all, they are very secretive. Why? Why are they so secretive if they're just an international Toastmasters? Have you seen their membership list? It's impressive--very impressive. And it doesn't follow any political, religious or ideological direction.

That is, insofar as Capitalsim/Globalization/New World Order are not political/religious/ideological concepts.

Ostensibly the Trilateral Commssion is better characterized as an international trade group comprised of govt and business leaders from North America, Europe and Asia. Lately however they have admitted members from other areas of the world.

So I guess my point is that it ain't so quaint no more.

I have no opinion on the CFR, the Bilgerbergers (?) or the Masons.

Look, let's be honest: There are some sick and needy people out there. These people would be paranoid even without the help of the internet, talk radio and Oliver Stone.

But it would be naive to think that all of the govts of the world are acting in the best interest of those they supposedly represent.

I'm equally skeptical towards monolithic corporations that bombard our minds with liberal, feel good, John Lennon-style messages and then operate in the most unconscionable manner.

But like I said: I'm finished trying to save the world on Flightinfo.

For now.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Yin and Yang; Ebb and Flow

But like I said: I'm finished trying to save the world on Flightinfo.

For now.

For some reason I can't seem to explain, I find those last two words terrifying.

 

[Timebuilder]

I think it just means that Mar is preparing for another "break", but like Arnold, he'll "be baaack".

 

[bobbysamd]

Conspiracies and those who promote them

Bobby, you surprise me. I have always been impressed by your consistent 'non-appearence' in any political thread.

I just figured you either have no opinions (unlikely given your posts on other topics) or you simply kept them to yourself.

I've always figured that this an Aviation Message Board and not a Political board. On the other hand, what do pilots talk about once established at cruise? Many things. Politics. Union matters. Sports. Investments. Golf. Family. Etc.

I answered this thread only because it brought back memories of some of my early radio experiences. It's still amazing to me that callers still discuss 1313, the CFR, the Trilateralists and the Cabal. And, once again, don't forget, it all ties in.

 

[Timebuilder]

And, once again, don't forget, it all ties in.

Ha! That's right, "it's all a part of their plan!"

Those were the days...

 

[WrightAvia]

I've always figured that this an Aviation Message Board and not a Political board. On the other hand, what do pilots talk about once established at cruise? Many things. Politics. Union matters. Sports. Investments. Golf. Family. Etc.

Since we fly without a second crew member, I don't really get to have too many conversations at cruise. I have noticed something really peculiar lately with the boxes. It's almost Orwellian in nature. Seems that the corrugated boxes have formed an alliance and are attempting push the cardboard boxes out of power. The overnight letters are claiming neutrality and have called for the UN of shipping, IATA, to send peacekeeping forces.

 

[mar]

The aviation message board and politics

Bobby--I've also given a little thought as to whether or not religion and politics are appropriate material for this board.

I respect those who feel it's inappropriate--and as always, it's their choice to continue reading or not....

But I finally came to two conclusions:

One, it's not my board. Therefore if the webmaster wants to put the smackdown on those type of threads then so be it. No arguements from me.

Two, believe it or not, I will NOT (as a rule) have a political or religious discussion in the cockpit with a crewmember I don't know very well. I fly with friends who know me better than my own family and I feel like I can talk to them about anything.

But I don't really see this website as a virtual cockpit conversation. Most of us are here while sitting on reserve, on a day off, on a lay-over or just plain old-fashioned furloughed.

I see this website more as a virtual crew room where we loosen up a little, kick up our feet and maybe blow off a little steam now and then.

Sometimes we get a sympathetic ear and sometimes...well, you know the rest of that story.

Peace

 

[enigma]

I don't believe in large scale conspiracies, except for one. Here it is; the Federal government, in attempt to maintain public confidence and order, conspired to convince the American public that President Kennedy's murder was the result of a lone nut, Lee Oswald.

A legitimate investigation of the murder was never accomplished. A patsy appeared, the FBI and other law enforcement bodies jumped on the first suspect, and the media/government has spent the last fourty years trying to convince the public that Oswald was in fact, a lone nut.

I could care less about the "conspiricy" that got Kennedy, but I am quite interested in figuring out: how the ambush was set up, where the shooters were, how they got away, and if Oswald was a shooter, or just thought he was.

Beware, for those of you who haven't spent any serious time researching this subject, an EXTREME amount of misinformation exists about this crime. It's a matter of opinion, but I believe that the vast majority of the "facts/exhibits" are questionable.

Here are just a few of the problematic areas. The Zapruder film doesn't show a crucial moment of the event. The only audio recording of the event is questionable. The autopsy photos are poorly done, and quite questionable. The autopsy X-rays don't correspond with the autopsy photos. The autopsists were not trained in "wound/trauma" death cases and didn't even map the bullet paths.(in the absence of verified bullet tracks, any talk about shooter location is pure speculation) The Dallas medical staffs original accounts disgree with the official account. Most eyewitness's at Dealy Plaza were never interviewed by law enforcement officers. They weren't even identified by the law. The crime scene was not secured, and the chain of custody for evidence was not proper. They can't even prove that the "magic" bullet was involved in the murders. And much, much more.

To this day, government/media still hold up Oswald as "lone nut", even though the House Assasinations commitee determined in 1978 that there must have been at least two shooters.

A most interesting subject.

regards,
enigma

 

[mar]

Exactly

Enigma--I've also read quite a bit about it and a few years ago I got to visit Dealy Plaza for the first time.

I know you're from Texas so I'm sure you've had the same opportunity.

It was truly fascinating. I was instantly "situationally aware"--if you know what I mean. I had never been there but having read about it and seen so many photographs I felt instantly oriented.

Standing in the Book Depository, on the same floor as Oswald and looking through the same set of windows (not the exact one due to glass encasement) I couldn't help but wonder why he didn't take the shot before the limo made that turn in front of the Book Depository.

--Before the turn, the limo is closing the distance.
--After the turn, the limo is crossing from left to right and then increasing the distance. And not to mention the problem of shooting thru that tree....(?)

On the other hand, as I stood on the Grassy Knowl (behind the fence) the limo would've been approaching. Same thing for the bridge--approaching limo.

I know where I would've been standing.

And then there's the whole thing about the head moving to the back and to the left that Oliver Stone portrayed so well in the movie JFK.

I know there's footage on cadavers showing gunshots from the rear producing similar movements but my gut (and the reaction of everyone at the scene) tells me that shot didn't come from the Book Depository.

My personal feeling is it was a mob hit. Robert Kennedy was Atty Gen (thanks to JFK) and the mob hated him. Of course, they eventually got him too.

Why cover it up? It could be that simple; to preserve confidence and order. I don't know. But the facts are pretty simple.

--The mob hated the Kennedys
--Oswald was placed at the scene
--Oswald was a good shot but not in the best location
--The head shot caused a rearward motion and quite a large piece of skull was blown back
--The forensics were rushed and sloppy--even butchered

 

[WrightAvia]

repository...book repository. knoll...grassy knoll

 

[bobbysamd]

Another group of conspirators

Ha! That's right, "it's all a part of their plan!"

Those were the days...

Yes, they were. <Sigh> Back in the days when radio was fun.

Don't forget about the Illuminatae (sp?). There is another organization called the Posse Commitatus (sp?) that tied in with the others.

Originally posted by WrightAvia
I have noticed something really peculiar lately with the boxes. It's almost Orwellian in nature. Seems that the corrugated boxes have formed an alliance and are attempting push the cardboard boxes out of power. The overnight letters are claiming neutrality and have called for the UN of shipping, IATA, to send peacekeeping forces.

This ties in with the other conspiracies. Without a doubt, the Council on Foreign Relations, 1313 and the Bilderbergers are behind it.

 

[bobbysamd]

The aviation message board and politics

But I don't really see this website as a virtual cockpit conversation. Most of us are here while sitting on reserve, on a day off, on a lay-over or just plain old-fashioned furloughed.

I see this website more as a virtual crew room where we loosen up a little, kick up our feet and maybe blow off a little steam now and then.

(emphasis added)

Absolutely. Point taken.

Although the Trilateralists are taking over the airlines. They are probably promoting P-F-T. You watch. That ties in with the rest of the conspiracy.