Consider Avantair

[johnsonrod]

No job is perfect - especially at a growing company where you will definitely have teething problems until processes and work policies are developed. I would venture to say that people who started at Avantair at the beginning would agree that things have changed for the better over time (with continued room for improvement).

I don't fly for them but, as I have said, I've spoken to a few of these guys and they generally seem happy. If you look at the current pay scale, it certainly ain't bad for flying an exotic sportscar turboprop around the country:

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/avantair.html

Could wages/QOL improve if the Netjets TA passes? Most likely unless Avantair wants an exodus of experienced pilots. 7/7 might or might not be a desirable schedule for pilots - I like the fact that you can plan things out for the year with this type of schedule (understanding that you may get some overtime if you are stranded at a remote airport - I guess plan for the middle of the week).

My point is that Avantair (and its pay package) should continue to evolve and get better over time. Hopefully work rules and QOL will improve with operating experience. The P180 is undeniably a very popular aircraft with share owners - those things are selling like hotcakes due to their jet-like performance and low price point. Avantair should continue to grow and this should favorably impact upgrade opportunities.

Is Avantair the perfect job? Probably not. Is it better than most regional jobs? I would certainly think so.

Good points. I think Avantair is probably the highest paying turboprop job in the country at the top end. Not too bad - relatively good pay, unbeatable route variety (beyond the hub airports), good schedule you can plan your life around and fast upgrades. Not a bad option when you think about it - especially relative to regional jobs.

I will be interested to see what Avantair does if/when Netjets' TA is passed. Clearly Avantair will have to boost its pay to retain its experienced pilots. Not doing so could result in an exodus I would think... It will be interesting to watch.

 

[On Your Six]

You can save money on headphones as well. I hear the Avanti is ultra quiet up front. I guess you might have to be careful what you say if the pax can hear you too...

The P180's got a great distinctive engine whine to it too - you can hear it from miles away.

 

[BoilerUP]

I will be interested to see what Avantair does if/when Netjets' TA is passed. Clearly Avantair will have to boost its pay to retain its experienced pilots.

...and CitationShares, and FlexJet, and FLOPS...

Come to think of it, didn't that happen industry-wide the last time NJA ratified a contract?

 

[CA1900]

The funny this about all of this BS is that their mins are 2500TT and they still want you to fly for over 100 hours before you can actually fly the PAX legs. Total BS if you ask me. Do any of the other fracs do this BS?

I can't speak for the other ones, but NetJets does the same thing. Per our FOM, an SIC with less than 50 hours in type/model will do all flying from the right seat, and will not be the pilot flying on passenger-carrying flights.

I don't believe it's a safety issue as much as a comfort issue for our owners and cardholders as the pilot adjusts to a new plane. Doesn't bother me a bit.

 

[BoeingBaller]

If it is such a great place to work why do they have a 18k non prorated one year contract.

 

[AftCG182]

You can save money on headphones as well. I hear the Avanti is ultra quiet up front. I guess you might have to be careful what you say if the pax can hear you too...

The P180's got a great distinctive engine whine to it too - you can hear it from miles away.

Sure... the Telex headsets that the company provides are all you need. It's extremely quiet. The pax say that the cabin is quieter that most of the other bizjets they fly on. Especially the Beechjet. As far as the the contract goes... who really cares. If you make an agreement to work someplace for a period of time in exchange for the training they'll provide, well, the contract is really just a piece of paper. Honor your agreement and there won't be an issue, right? Avantair is not the only company with a training contract.

 

[On Your Six]

I think it's fair to say that any pax/owner who currently uses a light jet like the Beechjunk, Bravo, CJ, etc would be fair game for Avantair - they should at least consider the Avanti due to its performance and cost savings advantages over those other airplanes. The Avanti is more comfortable in the back than any of those other choices IMO. That's a huge potential market. I think Avantair could do very well so long as it manages its growth properly.

 

[temcgrew]

I interviewed there 2 summers ago. When I walked in the office I noticed that it was a little dark, then everyone was running around yelling on cellphones. It didn't take long for me to realize that the power was out. Now, it wasn't just OUT, it was turned off by the power company. The main breaker box was bolted shut. So, there I was in a long sleeve white shirt and suit coat standing in the lobby with everyone running around in a panic.

It took a while and I was stuffed in a dark room to fill out an app. After a while I was put in another room that had more windows, this was a good thing as I didn't bring a flashlight. So I sat there watching everyone run around trying to figure out how to get the power back on. Someone went to HomeDepot to get a bolt cutter so they could get into the main breaker box!! Then I heard someone say they were going home to get a power generator.

I finally met the HR person who was to interview me. She informed me that this was no big deal and that Avantair just moved office locations and someone forgot to foward the mail. I guess the electric bill had been lost, but for how long? My guess is that it takes a while, like several months before they would come out and shut you off.

Anyway, we sat there chatting about this and other absurd office rumors. I was told about several internal cat fights going on, you know the basic stuff of stab you in the back to climb the ladder. The interview was sort of intermingled between this and the HR person jumping up to go put out fires!

Finally it was over and I was offered the job. Hmmmm what should I say? I have to talk it over with my wife, this would be a big move ya know and such a cut in pay for the first year. That was good enough for her and I then promptly left the office. It was cooler outside anyway with the seabreaze in St. Pete.

So what did I do? What would you do? I've only been to one other interview were the person doing the interview was bad mouthing other company personel, unfortunately for me I took that job and hated the internal conflicts and company politics.
I took another job and had an X-Avantair guy in my new hire class. After talking with him, I think I made a wise move.

But for those of you who want a good alternative to the regionals.............

 

[johnsonrod]

I interviewed there 2 summers ago. When I walked in the office I noticed that it was a little dark, then everyone was running around yelling on cellphones. It didn't take long for me to realize that the power was out. Now, it wasn't just OUT, it was turned off by the power company. The main breaker box was bolted shut. So, there I was in a long sleeve white shirt and suit coat standing in the lobby with everyone running around in a panic.

It took a while and I was stuffed in a dark room to fill out an app. After a while I was put in another room that had more windows, this was a good thing as I didn't bring a flashlight. So I sat there watching everyone run around trying to figure out how to get the power back on. Someone went to HomeDepot to get a bolt cutter so they could get into the main breaker box!! Then I heard someone say they were going home to get a power generator.

I finally met the HR person who was to interview me. She informed me that this was no big deal and that Avantair just moved office locations and someone forgot to foward the mail. I guess the electric bill had been lost, but for how long? My guess is that it takes a while, like several months before they would come out and shut you off.

Anyway, we sat there chatting about this and other absurd office rumors. I was told about several internal cat fights going on, you know the basic stuff of stab you in the back to climb the ladder. The interview was sort of intermingled between this and the HR person jumping up to go put out fires!

Finally it was over and I was offered the job. Hmmmm what should I say? I have to talk it over with my wife, this would be a big move ya know and such a cut in pay for the first year. That was good enough for her and I then promptly left the office. It was cooler outside anyway with the seabreaze in St. Pete.

So what did I do? What would you do? I've only been to one other interview were the person doing the interview was bad mouthing other company personel, unfortunately for me I took that job and hated the internal conflicts and company politics.
I took another job and had an X-Avantair guy in my new hire class. After talking with him, I think I made a wise move.

But for those of you who want a good alternative to the regionals.............

2 summers ago? A lot of things can change in 2 years - especially at a growth company that is now public (it must have controls, policies and procedures in place for the SEC). There must be better processes in place to deal with the growth - at least compared to 2 years ago... It may not be perfect, but I still think Avantair would be a great alternative to many regionals out there.

2 years is a long time at a growth company. How do you know whether things have improved or not? Do you talk to current Avantair pilots and compare notes? I'd bet that most of the senior pilots there would agree that the place is somewhat more organized now (but probably not perfect by any means). I am sure Netjets was disorganized at the beginning too - most growth companies are disorganized for awhile. I am sure there is more structure now.

 

[On Your Six]

A lot can change in 2 years.

 

[temcgrew]

Alot of things stay the same at places like that to. To much growth at a crappy run place can add up to more of the same just on a bigger level.

Besides, I was just sharing my experience.

 

[AftCG182]

Providing different perspectives is very important. You provided a different perspective based on your experience at the time. Anyone interviewing today will not have that same experience, however. I've been reading these boards for a long time now, and will continue to pay attention, as usual. I'll be sure to start a new thread in a couple of months after my honeymoon peroid has ended. I expect to report more good things. As always, "keep the blue side up!"

 

[greyskyracer]

Hey AFTCG,

Did you use to work at Piedmont?

 

[AftCG182]

Nope. Colgan. Scenic before that.

 

[On Your Six]

Nope. Colgan. Scenic before that.

Aft,

Looking at your profile you have a wide array of good aviation experiences - Lear 31/55, Twotter, Beech 1900D, E170 and now P180. How would you rate the P180 vs. all of the other types you have flown including the jets? Where would the P180 rank in the stack?

 

[AftCG182]

Aft,

Looking at your profile you have a wide array of good aviation experiences - Lear 31/55, Twotter, Beech 1900D, E170 and now P180. How would you rate the P180 vs. all of the other types you have flown including the jets? Where would the P180 rank in the stack?

Six-

I have found the perfect airplane (for me, of course!) Both the Lear and E170 time exposed me to high powered, swept wing aerodynamics. The 170 let me know how it feels to be at the controls of an 80,000 lb giant. It was great experience, but never felt comfortable.

I just really love stick-and-rudder hands-on flying. I come from a jump-pilot background. The Avanti II gives me the selfish fun of hand flying when I want to, along with cutting-edge automation for the times when I might prefer to have George fly for me. The Collins system is nothing short of amazing. Then there's the performance of the Piaggio. "Wow" pretty much sums it up. Fantastic power-to-weight ratio. Straight-wing aerodynamics with gobs of extra power. Very stabile, too. While in the box at FlightSafety, we held the yoke in our lap while the stall warnings were going full blast. The 3-lifting surface design never broke into a full stall. Just incredible.

If you see us on the ramp, please come by for a full tour. That's an element of the job that Avantair told us to expect. It's ramp appeal is pretty much off the scale. Have a great weekend. I'm going in a day early to make some O/T $$$!

 

[johnsonrod]

Six-

I have found the perfect airplane (for me, of course!) Both the Lear and E170 time exposed me to high powered, swept wing aerodynamics. The 170 let me know how it feels to be at the controls of an 80,000 lb giant. It was great experience, but never felt comfortable.

I just really love stick-and-rudder hands-on flying. I come from a jump-pilot background. The Avanti II gives me the selfish fun of hand flying when I want to, along with cutting-edge automation for the times when I might prefer to have George fly for me. The Collins system is nothing short of amazing. Then there's the performance of the Piaggio. "Wow" pretty much sums it up. Fantastic power-to-weight ratio. Straight-wing aerodynamics with gobs of extra power. Very stabile, too. While in the box at FlightSafety, we held the yoke in our lap while the stall warnings were going full blast. The 3-lifting surface design never broke into a full stall. Just incredible.

If you see us on the ramp, please come by for a full tour. That's an element of the job that Avantair told us to expect. It's ramp appeal is pretty much off the scale. Have a great weekend. I'm going in a day early to make some O/T $$$!

Great post - and I agree about the ramp appeal. That P180 is the best looking (and most exotic) airplane on the ramp by far. I'd say the Citation X and Challenger 300 are 2nd and 3rd.

 

[bailout]

yeah, except for the props,...

Most people I know don't like it.Something about it just doesnt look right.

 

[johnsonrod]

yeah, except for the props,...

Most people I know don't like it.Something about it just doesnt look right.

Could you be any more vague? People? Are we talking pax or pilots? I have talked to both pax and pilots who really like the airplane. Sure, it ain't for everyone, but you get a lot of comfort in the back for little money compared to comparably-priced jets. I hear it is very quiet in the cabin and it rides like a sportscar too.

And where to you work? What do you fly? How about providing us a comparison instead of being so vague...

 

[AftCG182]

Could you be any more vague? People? Are we talking pax or pilots? I have talked to both pax and pilots who really like the airplane. Sure, it ain't for everyone, but you get a lot of comfort in the back for little money compared to comparably-priced jets. I hear it is very quiet in the cabin and it rides like a sportscar too.

And where to you work? What do you fly? How about providing us a comparison instead of being so vague...

Don't fall for it, Rod. I'm desperately trying to maintain this thread's dignity. Before you know it, someone's going to chime in with "props are for boats", then this thread will be a total loss.