Consider Avantair

[johnsonrod]

I know that I said I wasn't going to contribute to this thread any more, but someone just ripped on my choice of employer. That's a bit over the line. Do you speak from first-hand experience that Avantair is a crappy place to work, or are you just blowing smoke out of your a$$? Because in my short time at Avantair, I can tell you FIRST HAND that it's a great place to work.

Congrats on the new job. Personally, I have heard some great things about Avantair and I have checked out an Avanti - looks like a great ride. I wouldn't listen to the naysayers out there - they clearly have their own issues if they have to bash others.

Have fun!

 

[BoeingBaller]

Not bashing you at all..Give it 6 months see if you still feel the same way.

 

[RoughAir]

Have been at Avantair coming up at 3 years.

Lets see the happy faces in 6-12 months from now.

I dont know what your definition about "forced overtime" is, but when you get in on your last leg at some obscure airport at 2300L, then pilot services says cant get you home tonight even though you have been bitching all day about getting home today.
That's forced overtime.

However if you like overtime, this is the place for you. I venture FOs can make easy 50K in first year not counting per diem. You like 12-14 hour duty days, this for you, especially when you arrive at hotel at 2200L for a 0600L show the next day with no restaurants at that 2200L hotel and can't take the 0630 L breakfast buffet that AM. So you fly hungry and fatigued for part of the next day.

 

[On Your Six]

I met a few Avantair pilots in a shuttle bus a few days ago. Very nice guys and they really enjoyed their job. Both were ex-regional pilots (one from Eagle and the other ex-Indy). That Piaggio is an interesting aircraft - you can always hear it coming (that whine from the engine is very distinctive) from miles away.

I found this video on Youtube for anyone considering Avantair - a bit goofy but nice views of the Avanti II with Pro Line 21 setup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PozsRQUjem4


I'd venture to say the P180 is easily one of the best looking aircraft on any ramp. Sounds like Avantair, over the long run, could be better than most regional jobs. Something to consider...

 

[Heavy Set]

I met a few Avantair pilots in a shuttle bus a few days ago. Very nice guys and they really enjoyed their job. Both were ex-regional pilots (one from Eagle and the other ex-Indy). That Piaggio is an interesting aircraft - you can always hear it coming (that whine from the engine is very distinctive) from miles away.

I found this video on Youtube for anyone considering Avantair - a bit goofy but nice views of the Avanti II with Pro Line 21 setup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PozsRQUjem4


I'd venture to say the P180 is easily one of the best looking aircraft on any ramp. Sounds like Avantair, over the long run, could be better than most regional jobs. Something to consider...

Cool video. I got a great look at one of those Avantair Avanti IIs lately at Scottsdale. Wow, it really impressed me - both the flight deck and the space in the back. It was far more comfy than my Lear (let's hope the boss doesn't get a good look or I might be out of a job). The pilots seemed happy too - happy to give me a detailed tour of the airplane.

I like the fact that Avantair offers a great product at a lower price point than any of the other major fractionals (beyond Alpha Flying Pilatuses). I think I read that the P180 has better performance than a Beechjet and yet is burns far less gas (maybe on certain stage lengths). That type of performance on shorter regional trips (NE, West Coast, South East, etc.) would be hard to beat. I think there is a huge potential market for this type of aircraft at the lower price point. And the fact that any increase in oil prices is passed along to the customer in a surcharge vs. Avantair covering it (at least on revenue flights) is helpful to the bottom line.

Regional/corporate/135/other fractional (FLOPS) pilots should definitely take a look at this operator IMO. I would look at it myself if I didn't really like my current gig - it has a domicile in my area. From at least a regional standpoint, it has got to be better than most regional jobs!!!!!!!!!!! I hear the upgrade time is quick too.

 

[On Your Six]

That's a slick looking airplane. That Pro Line 21 system up front would make your job a lot easier.

 

[johnsonrod]

Have been at Avantair coming up at 3 years.

Lets see the happy faces in 6-12 months from now.

I dont know what your definition about "forced overtime" is, but when you get in on your last leg at some obscure airport at 2300L, then pilot services says cant get you home tonight even though you have been bitching all day about getting home today.
That's forced overtime.

However if you like overtime, this is the place for you. I venture FOs can make easy 50K in first year not counting per diem. You like 12-14 hour duty days, this for you, especially when you arrive at hotel at 2200L for a 0600L show the next day with no restaurants at that 2200L hotel and can't take the 0630 L breakfast buffet that AM. So you fly hungry and fatigued for part of the next day.

Wow - you should go into sales. Still sounds better than my super-monotonous regional job. I am bored to tears. Give me an Avanti and unlimited routes any day.

With Avantair's growth, at least you can look forward to some advancement in the near term - Netjets might have a 4-5 year wait for an upgrade (even if the salary is better). Hopefully Avantair will respond to NJA's improved comp (if the TA passes) with at least a partial boost to reduce the wage gap. Probably wishful thinking but that would make sense unless they don't mind losing a lot of trained pilots...

 

[Rally]

Is this really true?

Please tell me this is'nt true. If you have a main gear bad indication you have to land gear up? Right? Any Piaggio pilots know? Born in Italy, love the country but the airplanes I've flown in that are Italian are crapola!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLYTSmPO0aY

 

[johnsonrod]

I still think Avantair would be better than any regional. Nice airplane, unlimited routes, pretty good pay. Not a bad alternative if you are starting to hate airline flying... The improving conditions at Netjets will have to have a positive impact on conditions at Avantair otherwise people will leave in droves and management must know that.

 

[bailout]

What? Flying for a regional airline will be to one's advantage when applying to NetJets? Or are you saying NetJets is a better long-term career move, more so than Avantair?

yep, both of those statements are true.

 

[Raskal]

I've talked to the avantair guys at fbo's before, they seemed ok with the job, but not enthralled. Like many in the industry they are waiting for things to improve at their company.

The days are long but they are at most frax operators. It's a different lifestyle, that's for sure. Personally I despise 7-7 schedules but many love them, so I guess it's what you want.

Avantair is certainly growing but it remains to be seen where exactly they'll end up and just how many aircraft they'll actually get. I wouldn't call it risky but it's not a stable place yet either. Pay is low however, combine that with the schedule...

As for pay, remember, the rest of the frax industry is fighting tooth and nail to avoid being sucked into the NJA pay/bennies range-just talk to any flops guy or sit around Jet in TEB and listen. Don't count on some huge equalization based on another company's agreement.

Either way, congrats on the job. I hope you enjoy it and will eventually be lead to better things-that's the idea anyway

Best of luck.

 

[BEfly]

I heard they (avantair) won't let SIC's fly. That true?

 

[AftCG182]

I heard they (avantair) won't let SIC's fly. That true?

After IOE, we fly the empty legs until we 125 hours in the airplane, then fly with a Standards Captain for a final checkout, I guess you could call it. There are some operational limitations that are also imposed until we get 100 hours in the aircraft. Pretty much the same as all operators.

So, we do plenty of flying as SIC's. Common sense limitations while becoming acclimated to the airplane. The "no fly" limitation is a thing of the past that was in response to something that happened before I came on line, so I really am not able to make an informed comment.

Please write back or PM me if you have any more questions.

 

[AftCG182]

It's kind of obvious, but in the interest of accuracy, I should also note that we fly the empty legs during IOE, too. For some reason I couldn't edit my post.

 

[Jack Mehoff]

how does the p180 deice? I didn't see any boots on the wings in those pics?

 

[Geronimo4497]

Bleed air. There are boots on the engine inlets, however.

 

[AftCG182]

Yup, bleed air for the main wings. Electrically heated forward wings. Boots for the engine intakes. After testing, Piaggio determined the tail didn't need de-icing/anti-icing. Notice the painted main wing leading edges.

 

[PilotChapin]

There is plenty of forced overtime..also plenty of pressure to fly broken planes..put down the kool-aid and wake up.Go to netjets and make twice as much..

I agree. Every newbie is the same, excited to be there blah blah blah. But until they start getting forced to fly broken sh*** is when they will realize what a mistake they made going to avant air. People only go there because they are either idiots, or they just have no clue how the place is run. Seriously, if you value your career dont go there. Blow a tire, or have the landing gear collapse b/c the airplane is a piece of crap and you're out the door my friend!

 

[Flybet3]

After IOE, we fly the empty legs until we 125 hours in the airplane, then fly with a Standards Captain for a final checkout, I guess you could call it. There are some operational limitations that are also imposed until we get 100 hours in the aircraft. Pretty much the same as all operators.

So, we do plenty of flying as SIC's. Common sense limitations while becoming acclimated to the airplane. The "no fly" limitation is a thing of the past that was in response to something that happened before I came on line, so I really am not able to make an informed comment.

Please write back or PM me if you have any more questions.

The funny this about all of this BS is that their mins are 2500TT and they still want you to fly for over 100 hours before you can actually fly the PAX legs. Total BS if you ask me. Do any of the other fracs do this BS?

 

[On Your Six]

No job is perfect - especially at a growing company where you will definitely have teething problems until processes and work policies are developed. I would venture to say that people who started at Avantair at the beginning would agree that things have changed for the better over time (with continued room for improvement).

I don't fly for them but, as I have said, I've spoken to a few of these guys and they generally seem happy. If you look at the current pay scale, it certainly ain't bad for flying an exotic sportscar turboprop around the country:

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/avantair.html

Could wages/QOL improve if the Netjets TA passes? Most likely unless Avantair wants an exodus of experienced pilots. 7/7 might or might not be a desirable schedule for pilots - I like the fact that you can plan things out for the year with this type of schedule (understanding that you may get some overtime if you are stranded at a remote airport - I guess plan for the middle of the week).

My point is that Avantair (and its pay package) should continue to evolve and get better over time. Hopefully work rules and QOL will improve with operating experience. The P180 is undeniably a very popular aircraft with share owners - those things are selling like hotcakes due to their jet-like performance and low price point. Avantair should continue to grow and this should favorably impact upgrade opportunities.

Is Avantair the perfect job? Probably not. Is it better than most regional jobs? I would certainly think so.