Concerned Mom Won't Fly with Arabs (who train Marines)

[stonewall]

You still didn't answer my question, either. What, in your opinion, will it take for there to be peace in the Middle East? All of us convert to Islam? What?

And, by the way, I like the way you think about Iraq being far safer under Saddam. I've had the same theories about America. We could easily reduce the murder rate (and other violent crimes) here in America if we just had the right leader. All we need is a guy who is willing to be ruthless and murderous to all the criminals...boom! Instant safety!

Other things might suck, but just think how much SAFER we'd be!! Yes, like Iraq under Saddam and the USSR under Stalin and Cuba under Castro, America would be so much safer with the right kind of guy in power. We never should've removed Hitler from Germany....their crime rate was SO low!

There are alot of reasons to oppose the Iraq war, but to say "things were better under Saddam" is colossally stupid and betrays every democratic principle known to mankind. It's always "safer" under the thug as long as you do what he says.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

What was the name of the country that was the first and only country to use nuclear weapons? They knowingly unleashed the horror of the nuclear genie on civilians. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The last 100 years alone is littered with tens of millions of deaths and hundreds of millions more that suffer because of the quest for power and the reactionary events that it puts into motion. Fear is natural and to be afraid of a person or a group of people that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up is just natural. If you walk in the ghetto at 1am you just might feel a bit tense. If you go to some redneck biker bar alone you might just feel a bit tense etc . . . It is an unfortunate bi-product that Islamic or Arab people have been tossed under this light of suspicion. 9/11 is very fresh, and when it gets a bit stale there is something on TV or a book or a movie that helps remind us. Alternative fuels will not solve much. The quest for power is the same. Whether it is whale oil, cotton, railroad tycoons, gold rush, diamond barons, oil czars, or the guy who finds out how to engineer all women to be hot and never fat it is the same. Somone will want to control it and they will go to ANY means to do so. If USA didnt use as much oil then China, India, Russia, South Korea, Europe, Japan, etc . . . would. Someone will want to sell it to them. American oil companies could care less who buys the oil as long as they have the refining, shipment, exploration, infrastructure construction to make money from. One guy on here said he had a major in chemistry, ok, so what. Are you behind the scenes? Do you know who is buying out patents? Do you know who blocks funding for research? Do you know who pays people to not reveal new breakthroughs? Does anyone think if the sun could power everything cheap that the existing energy moguls would want it in existence? 3000 Americans died by Islamic based terrorists. They have killed many times that all over the world in the last 50 years. How many millions have died, not including the Japanese atomic bombs, by American influenced and backed regimes all over the world. China is the US's biggest seller of goods and one of the worst offenders of human rights. What about the US backed problems in Chili, Guatamala, El Salvador, pre-Castro Cuba, Panama, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, all over Africa, East Timor, Palastine . . . What about the Nazis? Are all Germans bad? What about what the WASPS did to the American Indians? There will always be someone who wants more than they have and will try to take it from someone else. That someone else will eventually get tired of being stepped on and fight back with whatever means possible. Terrorists are just bad. They do bad things. They dont just wake up and decide to do bad things. Something or someone pushed them in that direction. Timothy McVeigh was as middle america as it gets. He committed one of the largest mass murders. Osama bin Laden is the world's new devil. Someone to hate. Someone to point to and say "he is out there and he wants to kill you." That makes people afraid, and you can do a lot of things when people are afraid. Like bomb the hell out of the desert while at the same time build a gas and oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea basin to where it can be loaded onto ships. That same pipeline that you couldnt convince the taliban to allow in 1996. So you scream, "he is in there" and level the sandbox of a country. Whew, that was exhausting. If some Arab guy made me nervous I might do the same thing because fear is not rational. If you are not going to be suspicious, or a bit paranoid then why be an FFDO? The price of peace is vigilance, and the price of freedom is responsibility.

 

[stonewall]

That was one of the most tedious posts I've ever read on FI.

If you think a smart-azz crack about "ooooooiiilllllll" is a witty response to "mil/civ," I question your judgement about world affairs.

As I've stated earlier, I find it hilarious when people who fly freakin' jets for a living have anything to say about the evils of "oooooiiiiilllllll!"

 

[atrdriver]

But I say again, your question is flawed. Why? Because it doesn't address the issue of any race/color/religion. It says, in a nutshell, that three people are lined up, and you *somehow* know one wants you dead. What does it matter if it's three white guys, three black guys, three Muslim guys, three Jewish guys???

Your logic that Iraq is a desolate place and the media only reports on the killings that it knows about goes for when Saddam was in power as well, with the added caveat that today the media has pretty much free roaming over the country, while under Saddam they didn't, so there is a much greater probability that there were many more unreported killings under his regime than there are now.

And as far as whether the three are white, black, jewish, purple, or polka-doted, it doesn't matter which. I simply asked you if there were three men of arab muslim descent standing in front of you, and you knew that 1 would kill you if you turned your back, would you turn your back to any of them. If you would, then you are a fool. Whether you are a vigilant fool, or a paranoid fool, it doesn't really matter, because you will be a dead fool. Call it what you wish, I call it being realistic.

 

[atrdriver]

... and the price of freedom is responsibility.

Really? The price of freedom is responsibility? Maybe you can figure out a way to pass that on to all the brave men and women who have DIED and given their blood to protect YOUR freedom.

 

[Flyer1015]

You still didn't answer my question, either. What, in your opinion, will it take for there to be peace in the Middle East? All of us convert to Islam? What?

Oh, sorry, I totally forgot. Honestly, there is TOO much religion in that area to ever have peace. You have born again evangelical Christians who believe in the coming and how Jews must be in control of that land, at which point, well you know the story. Then you have Jews trying to fight for land they believe is entitled to them, and you have Palestinians fighting for land for the same reasons.

It's like what that other guy said, first rule of starting a ground invasion/war in the Middle East:

Don't.

Rule 2: See rule 1.

I pretty much agree with that guy. There is too much religion in that region to ever have peace. I say that, because NO MATTER what happens, you can't satisfy all three religions (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism).

And, by the way, I like the way you think about Iraq being far safer under Saddam. I've had the same theories about America. We could easily reduce the murder rate (and other violent crimes) here in America if we just had the right leader. All we need is a guy who is willing to be ruthless and murderous to all the criminals...boom! Instant safety!

You misunderstood me. I didn't say (at least I hope I didn't say) that Iraq was safer under Hussein. What I meant was the death rates on a daily basis today are worse than under his control. Iraq wasn't safe back when he was in control, and it CERTAINLY isn't safe today. Now, it's worse. Why? Because Saddam wanted nothing to do with al-Qaeda. As a power control freak, any cells operating in his country would have posed a direct threat to him as a dictator. So, he kept al-Qaeda out. Now, with him gone, al-Qaeda has taken over pretty much all over the country, and use it for training, recruiting, and breeding terrorists.

There are alot of reasons to oppose the Iraq war, but to say "things were better under Saddam" is colossally stupid and betrays every democratic principle known to mankind.

You know what IS colossally stupid and betrays every democratic principle known to mankind? TRYING to spread DEMOCRACY by bombs and guns. Now that's ironic and betrays every democratic principle known to mankind.

Don't get me wrong, "things were better under Saddam" is only something I meant with respect to how things are today in Iraq. Of course Saddam sucked, and of course things sucked under his control. BUT, the situation is a LOT worse in Iraq today. Previously, you only had one problem: Saddam and his militant army doing what they wanted. Now in Iraq, you have US soldiers trying the best they can to patrol and control areas. You have al-Qaeda members running all over the country and recruiting, training, and expanding al-Qaeda. You have a civil war between Sunnis and Shias, along with the Kurds who still get screwed. And on top of that, you have multiple suicide bombings pretty much daily killing Iraqi civilians. Now, MILLIONS of people have been displaced from Iraq. Look at the number of children in school during Saddam, and look at the number of Iraqi children in school today. That number is now LOWER than before. Children are the future, right? And Iraq right now doesn't have a good future. That's what I meant by 'things were better under Saddam.' Don't take that literally. Of course things sucked back then. What I meant, though, is that things suck far worse today than before.

...

CoolSidePillow, I won't paste you entire post, but very nicely said. I agree with a lot of things you said.

Anyway, next up...

Your logic that Iraq is a desolate place and the media only reports on the killings that it knows about goes for when Saddam was in power as well, with the added caveat that today the media has pretty much free roaming over the country, while under Saddam they didn't, so there is a much greater probability that there were many more unreported killings under his regime than there are now.

Iraq is a desolate place to begin with, and now with huge craters and infrastructure shot to he!!. You'd be foolish to think the media could handle every single execution. Like I said, before, scroll up in this post and see my comentary on pre versus post Saddam Iraq.

And as far as whether the three are white, black, jewish, purple, or polka-doted, it doesn't matter which. I simply asked you if there were three men of arab muslim descent standing in front of you, and you knew that 1 would kill you if you turned your back, would you turn your back to any of them. If you would, then you are a fool.

In your case above, what does it matter if the three men are Arabic or not. What if they were three white Christians? Would your response still be the same? It should be. What if they were three blacks? Or three latinos? If it was three white Christian men, one of whom tried to kill you, would you now fear/distrust/hate ALL Christian white men for the actions of a few?

Whether you are a vigilant fool, or a paranoid fool, it doesn't really matter, because you will be a dead fool. Call it what you wish, I call it being realistic.

So spell it out for me. Just once and for all.

Are you saying you fear/distrust/hate ALL 1.5+ billion Muslims in the world, all due to your fear that they might do something bad to you?

From all your posts here, I would think your answers seems to be a resounding "YES!"

And that is unfortunate. Like PCL_128 and his story, it's always good to be vigilant and aware. Paranoia and fear is sign of weakness. Al-Qaeda has stated over and over again that one of their goals is to instill fear in the hearts of Americans. In your heart, you fear and distrust ALL Muslims (over 1.5 billion people). Congratulations, al-Qaeda has achieved their goal.

Do whatever you want.

YOU can be paranoid and fear all 1.5+ billion Muslims. Unlike you, I will not let paranoia run my life. I will remain vigilant and take the right course of action if a situation calls for it (just like PCL_128 did in his story).

 

[pkober]

While I was just a lurker on this particular thread, I could not help but bring somethig up. You can blame Clinton all you want but the problem was, and still is a certain group called Al-Queda. Last I heard Al-Queda is up and running...6 years after 9/11...why??????????? That's what REALLY bothers me...and thats the problem I have with Bush and all of his cronies. We have done NOTHING about the problem except invade Iraq and make more problems. That stinken organization should have been history already. Had we invested all of the resources and efforts on Al-Queada instead of Iraq...we might not be having this conversation. Clinton made mistakes...but Bush has done NOTHING to fix the real problem. As long as Al-Queda is up and running, Iraq will never get fixed...why? Because they booby trap every accomplishment the U.S. makes over there. No progress will be made there...and it will only get worse. How do you fix Iraq???? Eradicate these radicals...starting from the top over there in Afganistan and pakistan...I know at this point al-queda might never go away, but if you cut the head off the animal, it might take a while to grow a new one. That's my two cents...and that is why Bush has made the worst blunder in U.S. history. This is beyond democrats and republicans...it is something all of us will have to live with for God knows how long. If my neighbor breaks into my house and steals my stuff...I go after my neighbor...not the guy accross the street who saw this happen. Apperantly Bush forgot who attacked us on 9/11...good thing he is gone soon...whoever comes in republican or democrat will have quite a mess to deal with. Because Al-Queda is still a threat (bigger than before) I have to racially profile when at work...what a bunch of crap...Al-Queda should be history.

Where to start.

Are your comments from first hand knowledge from time spent in the AOR or from the internet.

We have done nothing about the Al Queda problem? How about our efforts in Afghanistan. Many fine Americans have died doing nothing against AQ there. Having resently returned, I can tell you that progress is being made there.

My point about Clinton was that someone blamed HW Bush and W Bush for the problems in Africa but soemhow forgot that we had a President from 1993 -2001. I was just reminding him that we had some one in office during that time.

Iraq will get solved. Simply throwing in the towel and running is not a solution. I'm not saying you said that, so don't get upset. Compare Iraq to N. Ireland as some one has already done. That problem appears close to being solved but it took many years and strong willed people.

I believe W undestands this threat more than you are giving him credit for. It's easy to throw stones at him, and probably fun and popular. But he has kept his eye on the target and one day history will vindicate him for it.

Begin to flame away.

 

[lineflyer1]

Really? The price of freedom is responsibility? Maybe you can figure out a way to pass that on to all the brave men and women who have DIED and given their blood to protect YOUR freedom.

I believe the price of freedom is lives. Yes, lives.

The lives we loose to protect freedom.
The lives we loose promoting freedom.
The lives we loose enjoying freedoms.
The lives that never were, because we enjoy freedom of choice.
The freedom and rights to drive, own a gun,drive a boat,fly a plane,own a knife, so on and so on.

Because we have freedom, lives are lost.

 

[AV80R]

Good for her! She has more right than these towels. WHO CARES!!! F--=ing Lawyers!

I definitely understand her anxiety, being a good mother, she got nervous and got off the airplane before they even left the gate (according to her statement and the hotel reservation seems to support her claim).

Having said that, I do feel sorry for the Iraqi men as well; they are helping our troops which probably makes them pariah within large portions of their community and here they're being "targeted" by the very same people they're trying to help. It’s sad but unfortunately part of life as long as large parts of Muslim communities’ engage in suicide bombings, etc. I say large portions of communities because if someone does not actively reject any and all forms of all terrorism activities, including supporting terrorist organizations like Hamas, Al Fatah, Hezbullah, etc... with money or even just verbal support – you’re in effect part of the problem.

 

[AV80R]

...Number of airplanes hijacked by illegal Hispanic immigrants = ZERO...

Probably not a very compelling argument; apparently, (some of) the illegal Hispanics prefer to execute students on their way home rather than to hijack airplanes...