Compass today lost the cabin

[great cornholio]

Reminds me when I was an FO and some IAD controller on some high horse. We had nasty weather in front of us. We gave him heads up that in 10 miles we were gonna need a turn to the south. He never came back to us. So 8 miles I clicked on and said we are gonna need a turn to the south for weather. Still he ignored us.
Then my Captain looked at me and said tell him one more time. So I did and the guy smarts back and says "unable."
My Captain Calmly looks at me turns to the south....... At the same time clicks on the radio and says we are declaring an emergency and turning to heading 180. He follows it up by saying we are turning south and have fixed our problem now you can fix yours!!! LOL The guy was one of those Captains that you'd always want to fly with and be.
Then an American Airlines Pilot clicked on and said he was doing the same.... Ahhh how sweet!
We never had any problems.... But my Captain Noted the time and the Freq. and made some calls. Seems they had some problems with this controller.

With many many many new controllers in the system this seems to be more and more common. I had to do it the other week with Chicago Center. Nasty storms ahead. Gave about a 50 mile heads up. No answer. 2 or 3 more calls was eventually told we could expect a turn in a bit. Finally ended up taking the turn on our own. Just keyed up the mic and told them we were in the turn. ATC does not fly your plane. They are not gonna at best case get rocked worst case wings fall of and die YOU ARE. Just like the old joke.

How are a controller and a pilot the same.. If a pilot makes a mistake the pilot dies. If a controller makes a mistake the pilot dies...

 

[Leroy Smith]

Very simple:

I'll aviate.
You seperate.....


As for declaring:

If, in your opinion, it is not yet an emergency; then it isn't.
When you believe it is, IT IS.


Be the pilot in COMMAND.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

It's the underlying threat of FAA action and the contentious relationship between pilots and FAA inspectors/enforcement. I'm not arguing against the declaration, that's is and should be a no brainer. However, these guys will answer to anything that happened in that cockpit from push to block in, regardless of what it had to do with the events that required the emergency. Guaranteed. It's as close as the FAA can get to monitoring the cockpit 24/7/365.

In lieu of obvious infractions, they dig and press and threaten. It sounds like this crew did their job, but they will probably get a letter because of some innocuous bullsh!t that happened during taxi.

Rant off.

Uh... No.

They won't and can't pull a CVR unless you bent metal. An FDR, yes (sometimes). A CVR? Never.

If the airline in question has ASAP, any and all information developed by the Event Review Committee would be confidential under federal law. Since a declared emergency is non-sole source, the worst a crew is looking at in all but the most egregious cases would be an administrative action letter (not PRIA or FOIA accessable), some training (confined to the circumstances of the event and non jeopardy) and maybe a freindly conversation with their ALPA Safety dude. No sweat.

Declaring an emergency does NOT trigger an investigative process. I have declared 5 and never once have recieved so much as a phone call.

 

[Dubya]

Uh... No.

They won't and can't pull a CVR unless you bent metal. An FDR, yes (sometimes). A CVR? Never.

If the airline in question has ASAP, any and all information developed by the Event Review Committee would be confidential under federal law. Since a declared emergency is non-sole source, the worst a crew is looking at in all but the most egregious cases would be an administrative action letter (not PRIA or FOIA accessable), some training (confined to the circumstances of the event and non jeopardy) and maybe a freindly conversation with their ALPA Safety dude. No sweat.

Declaring an emergency does NOT trigger an investigative process. I have declared 5 and never once have recieved so much as a phone call.

I went through this in 07'. ASAP was filed. The FAA is part of the ERC and both the Captain and I spent several hours on the phone with the FAA representative answering to everything we said and did. No metal was bent. I don't know exactly everything they reviewed, but it was quite an eye opener for me considering we did nothing wrong. The tower was violated, we were not.

I'm wasn't arguing against declaring. I stated that in my response. That is an underlying, and probably irrational, fear in many pilots minds.

Nowhere did I state that they pull the CVR. You inferred that. If nothing comes of it, ok, but if something does come of it, as in my case, they will get grilled by the FAA. You are naive to think otherwise. They tried to get us to admit all kinds of crap and asked me to repeat the sequence of events several times in two seperate phone calls.

 

[DeucesWild]

I've probably declared a dozen or so emergencies from smoke in the cabin to shut down engines to flight control surface issues. Never had anyone ever question it.

A dozen or so in 7000 hours? Does that include the sim??

 

[WSurf]

A dozen or so in 7000 hours? Does that include the sim??

Hahahahah No doubt!
Either that or he just has a black cloud following him everywhere!

 

[glasspilot]

Okay, maybe a half dozen.

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Uh... No.

They won't and can't pull a CVR unless you bent metal. An FDR, yes (sometimes). A CVR? Never.

If the airline in question has ASAP, any and all information developed by the Event Review Committee would be confidential under federal law. Since a declared emergency is non-sole source, the worst a crew is looking at in all but the most egregious cases would be an administrative action letter (not PRIA or FOIA accessable), some training (confined to the circumstances of the event and non jeopardy) and maybe a freindly conversation with their ALPA Safety dude. No sweat.

Declaring an emergency does NOT trigger an investigative process. I have declared 5 and never once have recieved so much as a phone call.

CVR and FDR data can be pulled any time an NTSB/FAA investigation is in order.. (a runway incursion/near miss would be one example where it would be pulled without bending metal) however... it can not be used against a crewmember for certificate action. That has nothing to do with ASAP, it's in the regs.

 

[Jar Jar]

Okay, maybe a half dozen.

A regular Chuck Yeager no doubt. True Hall-of-Fame material here boys.

Roll out the red carpet.

Here comes Capt. America!

[trumpets]

[orchestra]

["he's a jolly good fellow"]

...


Enough recognition for your marvelous feats of airmanship, sir?

Can we get your cell phone number, so the next time we are faced with a questionable decision we can solicit your expert opinion on the matter at hand?

 

[pianoman]

"I'm afraid of the Feds....I'm afraid of our Chief Pilot"

Reminds me of the guys who won't start the APU to cool the plane off at the gate or won't write stuff up because they're afraid of taking a delay.

Quit living in fear and man up. Trust me, they'll be a lot more people asking why you DIDN'T declare an emergency when you should have, than if you err on the side of caution.