Commutes unlikely to be addressed in new rules on pilot fatigue

[chqflyer]

Why should it be addressed?? People make their own decisions to commute.

Ya know, not everyone is a wandering twentysomething that can just load his entire life into a Honda and relocate everytime he is displaced out of a base. Grown ups have families. Hell, some even have spouses with careers. Why don't you give yourself about 15 years kid, then tell us how you feel?

 

[motch]

No one is saying you have to move into the base...
But how about checking into the hotel to be well rested AND SHOWERED the next day!

I always stayed at a hotel when I had an early show as a commuter. Did not sleep in the crew room.
I did commute in on days when I had late shows. But my duty days where usually less than 8 hours.

But at my current airline, I have flown International flights with pilots who commuted in on the same day and were fatigued.
I myself have flown fatigued because I was double banged on reserve.
At the time of show.. I felt ok. 8 hours later I was fighting to keep my eyes open.

Sometimes rules are made not just to protect the passengers, but also to protect ourselves!

motch

 

[Flopgut]

I've been displaced to a new domicile with 30 days notice and only 4 days off allowed between trips in the two domiciles. Any new rule would have to address this. Companies would have to incur costs in moving displaced pilots and giving them time off. Net result would be airline mgts not being able to move pilots around in knee jerk fashion. It's a win/win scenario for pilots, really. That's one reason they won't do anything.

 

[waveflyer]

A national seniority list would solve that problem by stabilizing moves. If we could transfer companies based on seniority to stay in the base where we live- pilots wouldn't get upended nearly as much.

Think of it as diversification. Your company wouldn't have to stay in your city- as long as the market for air travel was doing well- you'd be stable.

 

[IBNAV8R]

A national seniority list would solve that problem by stabilizing moves. If we could transfer companies based on seniority to stay in the base where we live- pilots wouldn't get upended nearly as much.

Think of it as diversification. Your company wouldn't have to stay in your city- as long as the market for air travel was doing well- you'd be stable.

So, company "A" closes a base. Ten pilots with "national" seniority bump ten pilots from company "B". How is the problem solved? Company "B" pilots get the shaft even though their company (BECAUSE of those very pilots) can maintain profitability with that base.

STFU on national seniority already!!

P.S. This last statement is NOT directed at any individual person. Just the idea.

 

[doh]

I've been displaced to a new domicile with 30 days notice and only 4 days off allowed between trips in the two domiciles. Any new rule would have to address this. Companies would have to incur costs in moving displaced pilots and giving them time off. Net result would be airline mgts not being able to move pilots around in knee jerk fashion. It's a win/win scenario for pilots, really. That's one reason they won't do anything.

And that is why they will not address commuting. Management is not willing to give up the "flexibility".

 

[ThisistheDream]

How can the airline enforce or make sure you would be in base with in 8 or 10 hours prior?? Make us go to the airport sign in 8 or 10 hours prior to reporting?? or make us wear GPS tracking device?? The whole thing about fatigue when you start your trip 1st day is that WE have to be responsible to get a good night of sleep. If we have to commute in the night before we start a trip if we commute or go to bed at a descent time if we live in base, that has to be a common sense rule but I cant see how they could really make it enforceable when there would be just too many variables envolved in making a rule that would work

 

[Draginass]

How can the airline enforce or make sure you would be in base with in 8 or 10 hours prior?? Make us go to the airport sign in 8 or 10 hours prior to reporting?? call in a secured GPS phone line or make us wear GPS tracking device?? The whole thing about fatigue when you start your trip 1st day is that WE have to be responsible to get a good night of sleep. If we have to commute in the night before we start a trip if we commute or go to bed at a descent time if we live in base, that has to a common senese rule but I cant see how they could really make it a enforceable.

With driving, no. But if you commute in on a Part 121 carrier, the company and the FAA can easily track your movement if commuting on your own airline, or on another air carrier. I'd just be a matter of a software mod to compare your air commute with sign-in time, and flag any violation of standard they come up with.

With probably 40% of pilots commuting, the FAA and the airline managements don't want ask the question because they know they can't stand the answer.

 

[saabservant]

A junior pilot at a regional, or even a first year new hire at UAL or anywhere else can't afford to be buying hotel rooms 4-6 times per month, especially if ASSIGNED bases such as LA or NYC. Move there? And live where, in a trailer park, by the river, or in some slum apartment?

I've commuted to crash in the crew room, at hotels, and on the airplane or in the airport. The first day is hard, but ok if you rest when finally at the layover...
The solution is positive-space commute in, and a reasonable first-year salary that would allow a few hotel rooms if needed.....hell, ual still makes new-hires (07, 08) buy hotel rooms in training. Even my regional paid for my hotel room.....

This is a problem management and alpa should solve...

 

[SuperFLUF]

How can the airline enforce or make sure you would be in base with in 8 or 10 hours prior?? Make us go to the airport sign in 8 or 10 hours prior to reporting?? or make us wear GPS tracking device?? The whole thing about fatigue when you start your trip 1st day is that WE have to be responsible to get a good night of sleep. If we have to commute in the night before we start a trip if we commute or go to bed at a descent time if we live in base, that has to be a common sense rule but I cant see how they could really make it enforceable when there would be just too many variables envolved in making a rule that would work

Like most of the rules already in place, I could see it just being enforced after the fact. Just like the self certification for medical fitness for duty, they would set it up to be self certified. Then it won't cost the airlines a thing. The full responsibility would be on the pilot. If you get hit by one of those kamikazee tugs at ATL or CVG then, they will look at your past and pull your cell phone location info to see if you were in compliance. Same old, same old.