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CommutAir Question
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Stephen
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- Aug 25, 2002
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Commutair
Well, since I used to work there, here goes from what I can remember. It's about a 30? test.
Convert CST to Zulu
Read a TAF
VV001= Vertical vis indef ceiling 100'
a couple of localizer questions, ie where are you on the appr.
SDF vs LDA and their respective widths
Multi flying=blue line and red line defs
some questions on alt. and 1-2-3
I just got my ATP and I don't really remember any questions coming straight from the written. More like the instrument written than the ATP.
The TAF you read during your interview is one from a Nor'easter that came through PLB.
Working there is fun, but a lot of work and you will only make 800 a month after taxes. It's not commutable as you can never get out of EWR or CLE to your base, usually oversold by 30. So you live in SYR or ALB. After ground school in PLB you'll be so sick of the town you can't wait to leave PLB.
Email me I can put you in touch with some of those guys.
Good luck.
Well, since I used to work there, here goes from what I can remember. It's about a 30? test.
Convert CST to Zulu
Read a TAF
VV001= Vertical vis indef ceiling 100'
a couple of localizer questions, ie where are you on the appr.
SDF vs LDA and their respective widths
Multi flying=blue line and red line defs
some questions on alt. and 1-2-3
I just got my ATP and I don't really remember any questions coming straight from the written. More like the instrument written than the ATP.
The TAF you read during your interview is one from a Nor'easter that came through PLB.
Working there is fun, but a lot of work and you will only make 800 a month after taxes. It's not commutable as you can never get out of EWR or CLE to your base, usually oversold by 30. So you live in SYR or ALB. After ground school in PLB you'll be so sick of the town you can't wait to leave PLB.
Email me I can put you in touch with some of those guys.
Good luck.
socalpilot
"Work Right! Fly Hard!"
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- Apr 2, 2002
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- 88
The above post is not accurate. For interview gouge goto aviationinterviews.com. Info was just updated in the last few days. As for life at CommutAir: the guarantee is 76 hours for a 28 day bid period. That's 13 bids per year. Starting pay is $16 and jumps to $18 an hour after 90 days so the pay is definately better than $800 a month. Schedule isn't to bad with 16 on 12 off. Cockpit jumpseat on Express and CAL so commuting isn't that bad either. Good luck.
starting pay of 16 going up to 18 isnt bad?????? are you nuts???? its people that have this attidtude that cause the small jet industry to pay poverty level wages...you SHOULD be thinking 16 going up to 18/hr sucks....ive gotten a 4 yr degree, spent several years to build time and get all my ratings and i deserve to start out at the very LEAST 45/hr!!
AutoTransfer
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Not bad relatively speaking!
145EXR,
I'll not speak for socalpilot, but my interpretation is that a comparison was being made to other regio....sma.....uhhhh.... non-Major (there we go) airlines. I believe that Commutair new hires start out on the 1900 so 18 an hour for that aircraft is actually not bad COMPARED to the starting wage or other Non-Major airlines. Is it what that pilot is worth? Of course not, but it seems to be about the going rate.
Everybody wants to pay 50 bucks for a round trip ticket, but ask them how much the guys up front are worth if something on the aircraft goes TU.
Tailwinds,
AT
145EXR,
I'll not speak for socalpilot, but my interpretation is that a comparison was being made to other regio....sma.....uhhhh.... non-Major (there we go) airlines. I believe that Commutair new hires start out on the 1900 so 18 an hour for that aircraft is actually not bad COMPARED to the starting wage or other Non-Major airlines. Is it what that pilot is worth? Of course not, but it seems to be about the going rate.
Everybody wants to pay 50 bucks for a round trip ticket, but ask them how much the guys up front are worth if something on the aircraft goes TU.
Tailwinds,
AT
oh, i agree..im not bashing anyone...i just think its unbelieveable that our profession pays so little for such a complicated and professional job...ask a lawyer if he would take 18/hr...ask a dr or nurse to take 18/hr ...it would never happen and they all go through as much traing as we do...im proud to say my company is in contract talks and we are gonna to whatever it takes to raise the standard for EVERYONE!
AutoTransfer
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145EXR,
I agree that professional pilots deserve more than 16-18 bucks an hour. Unfortunately, people aren't paid what they deserve. They are paid what the free market can support, and of course, what they can negotiate. If we were paid what we're worth, there would be a lot of airlines out of business. A B-1900 only brings in so much revenue, and that has to be split a lot of different ways.
I agree that professional pilots deserve more than 16-18 bucks an hour. Unfortunately, people aren't paid what they deserve. They are paid what the free market can support, and of course, what they can negotiate. If we were paid what we're worth, there would be a lot of airlines out of business. A B-1900 only brings in so much revenue, and that has to be split a lot of different ways.
jstyle13
Reserve for life!
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- 405
Poverty Wages
Not to belittle what pilots do, but don't Dr's and Nurses along with most professionals start out with crap wages and work schedules? I wish pilots were paid more to start out but with everyone trying to save money, I'm afraid that's just the way it is for now. I knew when I got into this that the pay sucked at first, but that is ok because I love to fly, the money is just an added benifit, plus it gets better as you move along.
Not to belittle what pilots do, but don't Dr's and Nurses along with most professionals start out with crap wages and work schedules? I wish pilots were paid more to start out but with everyone trying to save money, I'm afraid that's just the way it is for now. I knew when I got into this that the pay sucked at first, but that is ok because I love to fly, the money is just an added benifit, plus it gets better as you move along.
socalpilot
"Work Right! Fly Hard!"
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"I'll not speak for socalpilot, but my interpretation is that a comparison was being made to other regio....sma.....uhhhh.... non-Major (there we go) airlines. I believe that Commutair new hires start out on the 1900 so 18 an hour for that aircraft is actually not bad COMPARED to the starting wage or other Non-Major airlines. "
That's pretty much right on. I was just trying to correct the previous post and explain that you will end up with more than $800 a month and the schedule isn't that bad. CommutAir is a great place to work. The only problem is we only fly 1900's so the opportunities to move to larger equipment with better pay is not an option. I would love to make more money but have you looked at the prospects for jobs in the airline industry. Things aren't always better on the other side of the fence. I've seen several of our pilots leave for ACA and it looks like they will be on the street very soon if they aren't already. So $16 to $18 an hour in my book is better than $0. I had an oportunity to return to my previous airline that I was furloughed from with a substantial pay increase but sometimes quality of life is better than money. Plus it looks like I will upgade with about 1.3 years at CommutAir. Although there a several things that could be changed at CommutAir it really isn't that bad of a place. As for you guys at Xjet, I wish you the best trying to negotiate a contract in this environment. I really don't want to get caught in the middle when things turn ugly.
That's pretty much right on. I was just trying to correct the previous post and explain that you will end up with more than $800 a month and the schedule isn't that bad. CommutAir is a great place to work. The only problem is we only fly 1900's so the opportunities to move to larger equipment with better pay is not an option. I would love to make more money but have you looked at the prospects for jobs in the airline industry. Things aren't always better on the other side of the fence. I've seen several of our pilots leave for ACA and it looks like they will be on the street very soon if they aren't already. So $16 to $18 an hour in my book is better than $0. I had an oportunity to return to my previous airline that I was furloughed from with a substantial pay increase but sometimes quality of life is better than money. Plus it looks like I will upgade with about 1.3 years at CommutAir. Although there a several things that could be changed at CommutAir it really isn't that bad of a place. As for you guys at Xjet, I wish you the best trying to negotiate a contract in this environment. I really don't want to get caught in the middle when things turn ugly.
daddysquared
Well-known member
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- 86
Along the line of the doctor, lawyer, pilot comparison........I've got a buddy who is a resident at a local hospital. His path was, 4 year degree, 8 years med school, now works 110 hours a week. sure he makes ok money, but not outstanding. And he works his tail off. 110 hours a week!??
I have another buddy who is still in law school. His path was 4 year degree, and then law school (I think 4 years as well). Afterwards, he'll start at a job making somewhere in the $50k-$80k range. Not bad. But, once again, will be working in an office 70 to 80 hours a week.
Neither one of these buddies had the time to work while in post grad studies and racked up $120K and $80K in debt respectively.
My path is 4 year degree, instruct through years 2 and 3 (make a little money), go to regional (hopefully) in year 4 or one year after graduation (make a little money), and hopefully upgrade to captain 6 or so years after starting at the regional (make some ok money). So the road lengths are pretty similar, but here is the kicker, I'll be flying freakin' airplanes while they are working themselves to death. So, the way I see it, pilots win.
I have another buddy who is still in law school. His path was 4 year degree, and then law school (I think 4 years as well). Afterwards, he'll start at a job making somewhere in the $50k-$80k range. Not bad. But, once again, will be working in an office 70 to 80 hours a week.
Neither one of these buddies had the time to work while in post grad studies and racked up $120K and $80K in debt respectively.
My path is 4 year degree, instruct through years 2 and 3 (make a little money), go to regional (hopefully) in year 4 or one year after graduation (make a little money), and hopefully upgrade to captain 6 or so years after starting at the regional (make some ok money). So the road lengths are pretty similar, but here is the kicker, I'll be flying freakin' airplanes while they are working themselves to death. So, the way I see it, pilots win.
Bluto
Well-known member
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- Dec 15, 2001
- Posts
- 1,147
145EXR
I agree with your points about pay. Keep in mind, however, that CommutAir's pay system is based on a 28 day bid period and has a guarantee of 76 hours. Average that out over a year and the monthly guarantee is about 82 hours. So just to do a little comparison:
XJT 1st year FO:
-18.99 hourly X 75 hours/month = 1424.25 before taxes
-11 days off guaranteed during reserve
-Upgrade >3-4 years and increasing!
CommutAir 1st year FO:
-16.00 hourly X 82 hours/month = 1312.00
-After 90 days 18.00 X 82 = 1476
-12 days off
-upgrade < 2 years
Compare this to other small BE1900 operators (like Great Lakes and Gulfstream) add to the mix fully paid family medical insurance, ESOP, career growth opportunities and profit sharing...make your own comparison. CommutAir isn't a huge airline, but from all appearances they know how to treat their pilots.
No disrespect at all to Coex or its pilots, but I have to say that during the first year, quality of life, schedule, benefits, and growth all seem to favor CommutAir over even some large regionals like Coex. Good luck on the contract. Set the bar high.
I agree with your points about pay. Keep in mind, however, that CommutAir's pay system is based on a 28 day bid period and has a guarantee of 76 hours. Average that out over a year and the monthly guarantee is about 82 hours. So just to do a little comparison:
XJT 1st year FO:
-18.99 hourly X 75 hours/month = 1424.25 before taxes
-11 days off guaranteed during reserve
-Upgrade >3-4 years and increasing!
CommutAir 1st year FO:
-16.00 hourly X 82 hours/month = 1312.00
-After 90 days 18.00 X 82 = 1476
-12 days off
-upgrade < 2 years
Compare this to other small BE1900 operators (like Great Lakes and Gulfstream) add to the mix fully paid family medical insurance, ESOP, career growth opportunities and profit sharing...make your own comparison. CommutAir isn't a huge airline, but from all appearances they know how to treat their pilots.
No disrespect at all to Coex or its pilots, but I have to say that during the first year, quality of life, schedule, benefits, and growth all seem to favor CommutAir over even some large regionals like Coex. Good luck on the contract. Set the bar high.
CA1900
Big Member
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Now compare SECOND year pay for those two companies, and you'll see why our pay is so bad. Virtually every other airline gives a significant pay increase the second year. We don't. Second year pay here is less than $1000 more than first-year pay. I don't have the specific figures in front of me, but I believe a second-year XJET FO makes about $8000 more than first-year. That's a BIG difference.
We have people at our company who have been making FO pay for over THREE years before finally getting a captain's spot. Not so bad when 3rd-year pay is $29,000. (Our captains start at $30, whether they've been at the company 2 years or 4.) When your airline pay is under $20,000 for three full years, it hits the finances hard.
Yes, I know we're supposedly back to <1.5-year upgrades for the folks we just hired. That's where we were when these three-year FOs that just moved to the left seat were hired.
P.S. - We haven't had a profit sharing check in nearly 3 years. And I can't believe you're considering our suspect "ESOP" part of your compensation.
We have people at our company who have been making FO pay for over THREE years before finally getting a captain's spot. Not so bad when 3rd-year pay is $29,000. (Our captains start at $30, whether they've been at the company 2 years or 4.) When your airline pay is under $20,000 for three full years, it hits the finances hard.
Yes, I know we're supposedly back to <1.5-year upgrades for the folks we just hired. That's where we were when these three-year FOs that just moved to the left seat were hired.
P.S. - We haven't had a profit sharing check in nearly 3 years. And I can't believe you're considering our suspect "ESOP" part of your compensation.
Last edited:
BRA
Rollins Rules!
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It's the same thing with colgan. 1st year pay is $20 per hour. 75 guaranteed. Pretty much no per diem to speak of either. 2nd year pay is $22 per hour. But they just put us in a pay freeze, so we don't get anything now. Glad to have a job, but would be nice to look forward to some more pay....it isn't gonna happen unless i switch airlines. Come on comair!
NEDude
yada yada yada
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- 1,611
Can't argue with the pay issue at Commutair, as an FO it is pretty low (hey I just got approved for foodstamps). But you have to put it in perspective with similar airlines. Compare the Commutair compensation package with other small 1900 operators. I think if you look at it, Commutair comes out on top. To compare the payscales at ExpressJet, an all jet airline with close (maybe even over) 200 airplanes to Commutair, which has less than 20 Beech 1900s, is a bit extreme.
Also I think you need to look at things other than just pay. Commutair is growing right now, at a time when most others are downsizing. Everyone who was on the seniority list prior to this expansion, will upgrade by August. And some who are being hired as a result of the expansion could see upgrade times of less than nine months. Given that there are some bigger airlines out there hiring right now, and that they are taking Commutair guys (Air Tran, Alaska, Southwest), the upgrade and a chance to move on to within a year and a half or two is a pretty good deal in this environment.
Also I think you need to look at things other than just pay. Commutair is growing right now, at a time when most others are downsizing. Everyone who was on the seniority list prior to this expansion, will upgrade by August. And some who are being hired as a result of the expansion could see upgrade times of less than nine months. Given that there are some bigger airlines out there hiring right now, and that they are taking Commutair guys (Air Tran, Alaska, Southwest), the upgrade and a chance to move on to within a year and a half or two is a pretty good deal in this environment.
Socal pilots response
Apparently you don't pay taxes like the rest of us.
76 Hrs x 18.00=1368 GROSS
After Fed and NY State taxes you will only take home about 800 a month, 1000 tops. At Commutair you never go over guarantee that's how they keep costs down.
These interviewees have the right to know what to relatively expect at CA. Granted a flying job is better than no job but when I was there I was working the night shift at Albany Memorial Hospital and flying during the day just to keep the rent paid and be able to buy groceries.
They are "expanding" due to CAL mainline allowing us to go to CLE and EWR. When we switched over to CAL Connection from Airways we were forbidden to compete with Express in CLE and EWR.
In general the salaries suck at some of the regionals but we all do it just to pay our dues but one has to ask themself if its worth it, when you want see a job at the majors for 5-7 yrs?
Apparently you don't pay taxes like the rest of us.
76 Hrs x 18.00=1368 GROSS
After Fed and NY State taxes you will only take home about 800 a month, 1000 tops. At Commutair you never go over guarantee that's how they keep costs down.
These interviewees have the right to know what to relatively expect at CA. Granted a flying job is better than no job but when I was there I was working the night shift at Albany Memorial Hospital and flying during the day just to keep the rent paid and be able to buy groceries.
They are "expanding" due to CAL mainline allowing us to go to CLE and EWR. When we switched over to CAL Connection from Airways we were forbidden to compete with Express in CLE and EWR.
In general the salaries suck at some of the regionals but we all do it just to pay our dues but one has to ask themself if its worth it, when you want see a job at the majors for 5-7 yrs?
Commutair-Another word of caution
Commutair also furloughed over half its pilot staff in Aug. 2001.
Hmmm. How quickly we forget. That was pre-9/11 environment due to financial concerns etc. Don't be so quick to read so much into growth in a post 9/11, wartime, suck-a** economy and SARS environment. Piedmont cancelled their orders for 311s and ACA is now sending people home. Mesa has a contract with Airways to bring on 50 more rj's but they aren't hiring either?!
I really don't think any airline has the key to success in this environment as the industry has never been faced with so much at one time.
Commutair also furloughed over half its pilot staff in Aug. 2001.
Hmmm. How quickly we forget. That was pre-9/11 environment due to financial concerns etc. Don't be so quick to read so much into growth in a post 9/11, wartime, suck-a** economy and SARS environment. Piedmont cancelled their orders for 311s and ACA is now sending people home. Mesa has a contract with Airways to bring on 50 more rj's but they aren't hiring either?!
I really don't think any airline has the key to success in this environment as the industry has never been faced with so much at one time.
"Can't argue with the pay issue at Commutair, as an FO it is pretty low (hey I just got approved for foodstamps). "
NEDude, can you give us some info on foodstamps, are you in NY state, how do you go about this, I'm not kidding or anything, I'll take any advantage I can get.
Also on this subject does anyone have info on qualifing for a low income morgage/housing?
Thanks
NEDude, can you give us some info on foodstamps, are you in NY state, how do you go about this, I'm not kidding or anything, I'll take any advantage I can get.
Also on this subject does anyone have info on qualifing for a low income morgage/housing?
Thanks
when i bought my house my bank took one look at my w-2 and qualified me for a 1st time home buyer/low income loan..it was about 1 percent below current market value..i just refinanced and yet again, when i told them what i made, i got the lower income loan...just ask your bank if they offer these programs (i know in nj and ny that they have to by law)..good luck!
socalpilot
"Work Right! Fly Hard!"
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- 88
dhc8ap, your probably right. I have a very good tax preparer that gets me a very low tax bill at the end of the year. And it's all legal. Also, when calculating takehome pay don't forget to include aproximately $30 for every overnight trip in non taxable per diem. Probably abour 1/2 to 1/3 that amount for day trips. All I'm trying to convey is that my takehome pay has been better than the $800 to $1000 a month that you calculated. The 76 hour guarantee is in a 28 day bid. 13 bids a year. 76 X 13 = 988/12 months = 82.33 hours per month. Now I'm not saying that CommutAir is the greatest place to work, just that it's better than most people give credit for. I'm happy here and in the end that's all that really matters.
NEDude
yada yada yada
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 1,611
I don't know what kind of taxes you are paying, or figuring, but my first year at Commutair, my weekly paycheck after taxes was $315/week. At 52 weeks per year, that works out to $1365 TAKE HOME per month, a lot more than the $800-$1000 you are quoting. And that is not figuring in per diem either.
As for the foodstamps, I am not in New York, but with most places, contact the state department of Children and Family services, or your local welfare offices. Be prepared for a TON of paperwork, and a lot of raised eyebrows when they see you are an airline pilot.
Lastly, Commutair is NOT serving EWR, it is only CLE.
As for the foodstamps, I am not in New York, but with most places, contact the state department of Children and Family services, or your local welfare offices. Be prepared for a TON of paperwork, and a lot of raised eyebrows when they see you are an airline pilot.
Lastly, Commutair is NOT serving EWR, it is only CLE.
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