CommutAir Pilots Lose 2 Days Off

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't want to get into a P*ssing match, I was just pointing out that the original post was not entirely accurate.

If the company did not pay for the two days off taken away I don't think that would help your position....

Involuntary is everything is this discussion...

IOW the son or daughter doesn't really care if they has some extra spending money.. they really just want to be with thier Dad...

 

[onionluvr]

I see what you're saying, in terms of the pay for these extra days.

My point was that the original incentive program gave a financial incentive to accept extra days of work. If they're being forced upon the pilots, it's kind of a different animal. It's more like hush money.

What about it was inaccurate? It looked 100% accurate to me.

Well, I consider not telling the entire story the same as being inaccurate. If you didn't know that the company was paying the the money, now you do. If you did know that it was, then you purposely painted a picture to make things seem more grim than they actually are. In other words you painted an inaccurate picture of the situation.

As I said before, I'm not sure I agree with what has been done, but it's not as bad as you made it out to be.

 

[onionluvr]

I also forgot to mention that this only applies to the Beech pilots. The Dash pilots still get their 12 days off.

 

[CA1900]

Well, I consider not telling the entire story the same as being inaccurate.

If you're going to make up your own definitions, it's going to make it terribly hard to communicate with you.

I was talking about an loss of days off, not the pay. I wasn't attempting to deceive anyone; I was simply talking about a different topic. I didn't talk about the 401k, either.


That the company is paying over guarantee plus a bonus doesn't change the fact that they've unilaterally decided to force every single 1900 pilot to work extra days. No asking for volunteers, no pay raise (in 7 years) to entice people to stay, nothing. I predict this is going to make the attrition problem even worse. What then? 8 days off a month? When does it end?

As I said before, I'm not sure I agree with what has been done, but it's not as bad as you made it out to be.

I guess if money's everything to you, it isn't. But tell that to a guy who's now commuting long-haul from Boston (because the domicile closed), and who is now only going to have a week at home with his family each month after he's done getting to and from his extra trip. I think he'll see it a little differently than you.

 

[onionluvr]

If you're going to make up your own definitions, it's going to make it terribly hard to communicate with you.

I was talking about an loss of days off, not the pay. I wasn't attempting to deceive anyone; I was simply talking about a different topic. I didn't talk about the 401k, either.


That the company is paying over guarantee plus a bonus doesn't change the fact that they've unilaterally decided to force every single 1900 pilot to work extra days. No asking for volunteers, no pay raise (in 7 years) to entice people to stay, nothing. I predict this is going to make the attrition problem even worse. What then? 8 days off a month? When does it end?

I guess if money's everything to you, it isn't. But tell that to a guy who's now commuting long-haul from Boston (because the domicile closed), and who is now only going to have a week at home with his family each month after he's done getting to and from his extra trip. I think he'll see it a little differently than you.

Overall, I really don't disagree with you on most of these issues. I think being accurate includes telling the COMPLETE story though. But, that's my opinion. There is a big difference between having days off taken away with no change in compensation, versus what actually happened. I simply pointed out some facts that you didn't.

This is a big blow to the quality of life issue. Money isn't everything to me at all. Given the choice, I would prefer the two days off. However, I know where the door is, and I will use it if I decide to. Since I have chosen not to leave right now, I will gladly take the money.

Attrition is going to be a big problem, and this decision will probably make it worse. That's why I've said twice now (this will be number 3), I'm not sure I agree with this solution.

 

[CA1900]

Attrition is going to be a big problem, and this decision will probably make it worse. That's why I've said twice now (this will be number 3), I'm not sure I agree with this solution.

Fair enough...

:beer:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I also forgot to mention that this only applies to the Beech pilots. The Dash pilots still get their 12 days off.

an unfair policy that doesn't treat all employees equally... wow... if you had a union it would not happen. If it did your union would sue.

 

[vectorvictor]

In general...I don't like doing anything I HAVE to do. The money would have made the situation less painful...and I am glad you guys are getting compensated for your pain but the fact remains that the compensation is no where near what it should be.

A MANDATORY reduction in time off is no way to boost morale or encourage people to stay in this labor market. Feels like you guys are getting punished for sticking around. I think they would have gotten a lot of volunteers to accept this program without making it MANDATORY. Its was a stupid move on managments part. My $0.02.

 

[NEDude]

Had a conversation the other day with an old CommutAir associate (he is still there) and found out that a recent new-hire class was "postponed" due to not enough people to fill it. This industry is getting to the point where at the regional level you can almost pick your job. Why on earth would you want to go fly a Beech when you could go fly an EMB-170 and be a captain on it in less than two years? Airlines like CommutAir are going to have to start to make it worthwhile for people to want to work there, and the way to do it is increased pay and better QOL. Taking away days off is a short term solution which could lead to a far worse long term problem.

As far as ALPA goes, just bringing it on property will not help anybody. You need to have a strong group of people who are willing to work hard and put a lot of time into it. If you have that, ALPA (or any union really) will be a great benefit. But to vote in a union and then sit back and hope things get beeter will bring nothing but disappointment.

I spent five years at CommutAir and now work for a company with a strong ALPA group. Like CA1900, I can tell you how beneficial it is to have a strong union group.

 

[PCL_128]

CommutAir pilots, you are now suffering for the failure of your predecessors to make the right decision about ALPA four years ago. Had they made the right decision, you would still have your 12 days off right now.

Thankfully, it's not too late to right that wrong. The Colgan pilots are currently in the middle of an ALPA drive that will likely succeed. ALPA has dedicated $5 million towards organizing pilot groups. If a small group of you get together and form an organizing committee, I'm sure ALPA would be willing to give it another go. What do you have to lose?

 

[Crown Reserve]

Can Christopher Walken be our union rep? He would get $hit done!

 

[Obi-Wan]

I totally agree, and that's why a lot of us voted for one. It would have prevented exactly this kind of unilateral change in working conditions without negotiating with the pilot group.

I disagree with your statement about most pilots having voted for a union and that is why the drive failed. If people had actually voted 4 years ago they would have had a contract by now. Unfortunately most pilots including the XJT people who were hired as a result of the CLE flying and ALPA’s work did not vote for the union. The amount of hate and disdain for a union was incredible. Majority of pilots bought the company's and the company moles BS about going union. The company and their moles did a great job of dividing and conquering. Now most of those guys including the XJT guys have moved on. I can write a book about everything that happened then but that’s all water under the bridge now and most have moved on to bigger and better things.

I personally don’t know if a union drive at commutair will work. This is because the pilot group is mostly comprised of very senior pilots or very junior guys. The people in between don’t last very long as they move on to other regionals.
The junior guys are happy to have a flying job and want to move on so they don’t want to rock the boat. The senior guys have a close bond with management and get special treatment and positions so they do not have an interest in going Union.

If the commutair guys decide to get a union, ALPA pilots will be behind them and wish them luck. For now your best bet would probably be to make that so called lateral movement as pay, benefits, upgrades, and quality of life would be far superior to what you have now.

Best of luck

 

[SenorSpielbergo]

Can Christopher Walken be our union rep? He would get $hit done!

"Stick with me, babies, and you'll all be wearin' gold-plated diapers!"

 

[NEDude]

Quote:
I totally agree, and that's why a lot of us voted for one. It would have prevented exactly this kind of unilateral change in working conditions without negotiating with the pilot group.
I disagree with your statement about most pilots having voted for a union and that is why the drive failed. If people had actually voted 4 years ago they would have had a contract by now.

He didn't say "most", he said "a lot", very big difference. When I called the NMB right after the vote ended, they told me it failed by seven votes. I have heard a slightly different number thrown out there as well. But the point is it was a very close vote regardless of who you talk to. There were a lot of the Coex guys who chose not to vote because "it wasn't their fight". You can't abstain from a union vote, not voting is counted as a no vote. If you discount all of the Coex guys and their votes, I bet you'd find an overwhelming majority of "real" CommutAir pilots voted for the union.

About a year and a half ago, before I left, there began to be a murmer of a movement again. Management was smart this time, they promoted the percieved leader of the movement (and clear leader of the '03 campaign) to management. I am guessing that killed it right there. The multiple changes in the sick leave policy didn't get generate support. The major increase in health insurance premiums didn't generate support. The loss of the performance bonus didn't generate any support. The crappy pay rates for the Dash-8 have not seemed to generate any support. I somehow doubt that losing two days off will generate enough support either.

 

[Yodafly]

captains get your PIC fo's should walk for a better job 10 days off su...

 

[lowery21]

What does that even mean?

"NEVER QUESTION!!!"

 

[fam62c]

That's not good. The fact is that being an airline pilot isn't worth it unless you get 13-15 days off or more. You need that much time off in order to compensate for all the days away from home. You can't have a life AND a job with 10-12 days off even if you live at your domicile. You guys aren't alone; this is becoming a big problem at all the regionals, especially the smaller ones with lower pay and less opportunity. Pilots are leaving rapidly and the airlines just don't have the ability to attract, train and maintain enough new-hires to meet staffing levels. Many airlines are working at "skeleton crew" levels and pushing the remaining pilots harder which just creates more attrition. I'm guessing that the pilot shortage at the regional level will eventually put some of the smaller carriers out of business and force the larger regionals to compete for new-hires. This is good if you are looking for a job but not so good if you are senior at one of the smaller carriers and plan on staying......the good senior schedules may be a thing of the past.

 

[jimcav]

Is Mark Denny still the cp up there?

 

[chimichanga]

Is Mark Denny still the cp up there?

Yep...

 

[jimcav]

I did some capt ioe with him about 8 years ago and he was a blast. I've heard thru the grapevine that he turned to the dark side.