CommutAir and ALPA?

[NEDude]

I would buy your arguments if any of it were true.

Give me an example of unions preventing furloughs. A no-furlough clause certainly hasn't helped the Delta pilots out. ALPA hasn't prevented furloughs at United, USAirways, Continental, Northwest, Eagle, ExpressJet, or anywhere else. If they can't and haven't prevented furloughs at these big airlines, what on earth makes you think they would have tried, or been able, to prevent furloughs at Commutair two years ago? I mean come on and get real here.

I supported ALPA here because I think we do need a unified voice in some issues. But let's not go overboard on what ALPA can and will do. CommutAir has never been a union carrier in its 14 years of existence. And in those 14 years it has never grown to a size where it has been able to be used as leverage against a union. The pay, lifestyle and benefits have always been average or better for our equipment type. I do think that things have gone downhill a bit and that is why I supported ALPA. But we are not, and have never been a bunch of bottom feeders who steal flying from everyone. I can think of more than just a couple of ALPA carriers who do fit that mold. In fact I can think of a union carrier that charges its F/Os $20,000 for the opportunity.

So I guess I have to ask the question. Is it better to be a union employee and work more, for less pay and benefits, and be used as leverage to drive down salaries in the industry and steal other unionized carriers flying (ie Mesa)? Or is it better to be non-union and have industry average pay, benefits and work rules and thus unable to be used as effective leverage?

Again I ask the question - how does this affect anyone outside of CommutAir? Nobody has yet shown any real reason as to how it can. I am disappointed in our pilot group for how the vote went. But let's not blow this out of proportion and draw conclusions that just don't exist. Being an ALPA carrier does not, and cannot, prevent any airline from furloughing or becoming a bottom feeder who lowers industry pay and becoming a threat to other unionized carriers.

 

[BLWME]

NEDude,

You have hit the nail on the head,

The Commutair Vote has zero impact on other pilot groups.

The majority of people that are pissed are from Xpress jet and from the CalAlpa MEC. They are pissed because they voted to give furloughed XpressJet pilots health benis and argued to give them first option for hiring at CA. They feel betrayed that all.

Hell they want some pilots brought up on ArticleVII charges, AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. they are just blowing off steam.

 

[MJG]

Give me an example of unions preventing furloughs.

OK since you asked: How about when CALAPA successfully negotiated No-Fly lines with XJET management further preventing additional furloughs that would have happened. Since then no additional XJET pilots have been put on the street.

 

[rubberducky]

"

Tell me this = how is pulling a 737 off a route, furloughing the crew, and then paying an RJ crew a third of the 737 crewto fly the same route

While I somewhat agree with statement, it raises the question. Are you not doing the same thing by flying 1900s on routes that COEX could have put ERJs on for higher pay?

RD

"splash and GO"

 

[walkthasky]

.

By discussing on this board and interacting with other pilots you are making it everyones business. I assume thats why we chat on this board. I used to work for CommutAir. Good place to work. Left there over a year ago, and lifestyle was pretty good. I know some of you want to rush ALPA in, but i miss being able to commute on both sides of a 2 day trip. You can forget that with any other airline. Anywhere from 4 - 6 days straight and youre LUCKY if you can commute on one side of the trip. I also miss building my own line with whatever is leftover from trips assigned to other pilots. I admit the pay did suck at commutair, but youre flying 19 seaters. I recall 2nd year pay around $20 /hour (at commutair). The company i fly for only pays $2.50 more for a 29 seater (ALPA carrier). Like i said the pay sucks, but it sucks everywhere, we are all underpaid, But i thought lifestyle was pretty good at CommutAir. However, I have been out of the loop for 13/14 months, things do change. I'm not sure how good or bad ALPA would have made things for you guys. Its really nice to have representation (somewhat), but it could also be a disadvantage. I wish you guys a lot of luck especially with that ESOP thing going on.
my .02

 

[NEDude]

OK since you asked: How about when CALAPA successfully negotiated No-Fly lines with XJET management further preventing additional furloughs that would have happened. Since then no additional XJET pilots have been put on the street.

Of course none of it had anything to do with the 32.4% increase in ASMs, the 13.7% increase in block hours, the 10.7% increase in departures, the addition of at least 2 new airplanes per month over the past year, or record load factors. No, none of that had anything to do with furloughs stopping.

 

[MJG]

Of course none of it had anything to do with the 32.4% increase in ASMs, the 13.7% increase in block hours, the 10.7% increase in departures, the addition of at least 2 new airplanes per month over the past year, or record load factors. No, none of that had anything to do with furloughs stopping.

It did not. We wouldn't have been able to absorb all the flow-backs coming from CAL at the time even with new aircraft deliveries. You can't send down a couple hundred pilots to XJET all at once without having to furlough off the bottom of our list.

In fact we're still getting 3 new aircraft a month and flying more than we ever have. But yet our management just offered and awarded nearly 100 COLA's of either 4 or 6 months. COLAs get offered when the company forsees being overstaffed. If enough pilots opt for the COLA then the company may get away without having to furlough additional pilots this time around. Additional aircraft deliveries, increased ASMs and increased block hours don't always prevent furloughs from happening.