Commercial PTS ?'s and 172RG

[cookmg]

The 1980 172RG that I fly has a placard at the flap selector saying "avoid slips with flaps extended". This is not one of the mandated placards in the AFM. In fact, the AFM doesn't even mention slips with flaps. Is it disqualifying to use slips with flaps on the practical test with this placard in the plane?

Also, is it necessary to enter lazy 8s and chandelles at Va on the practical test? The AFM doesn't reccommend a speed, but these manuevers don't qualify for full or abrubt control movements do they? Seems to me that lazy 8s should be started from a cruise speed.

thanks

 

[Whirlwind]

The no slips with flaps thing is not a limitation, so no that would not be a fail item.

As for entering a Lazy 8 at Va, that is how I was taught, and I have read it that way in more than one book, but I don't think it is a legal requirement.

I'm sure about the first and guessing about the second, but regardless, ask your CFI to be sure.

Fly Safe!

 

[midlifeflyer]

Also, is it necessary to enter lazy 8s and chandelles at Va on the practical test? The AFM doesn't recommend a speed, but these manuevers don't qualify for full or abrubt control movements do they? Seems to me that lazy 8s should be started from a cruise speed.

When in doubt on a PTS maneuver, go to FAA-H-8083-3, the "Airplane Flying Handbook":

For Lazy-8s
==============================
Prior to performing a lazy eight, the airspace behind and above should be clear of other air traffic. The maneuver should be entered from straight-and-level flight at normal cruise power and at the airspeed recommended by the manufacturer or at the airplane's design maneuvering speed.
==============================

And for Chandelles
==============================
The maneuver should be entered from straight and level and at any speed no greater than the maximum entry speed recommended by the manufacturer—in most cases not above the airplane’s design maneuvering speed.
==============================

This last one is a bit vague, but the accompanying diagram says "Cruise or maneuvering speed (whichever is lower)"

Although not of particular concern in a Cutlas, like steep turns, it's a load issue, not an "abrupt control movement" one.

 

[MarineGrunt]

The 1980 172RG that I fly has a placard at the flap selector saying "avoid slips with flaps extended". This is not one of the mandated placards in the AFM. In fact, the AFM doesn't even mention slips with flaps. Is it disqualifying to use slips with flaps on the practical test with this placard in the plane?

If it's placarded, it's a limitation for your specific aircraft. I'm sure that you would bust your practical if you ignored it. Again, ask your CFI, but you wouldn't catch me trying it...

 

[BeachBum]

I know that in our Cessnas, the poh lists as a prohibited maneuver "slips with greater than 30 degrees of flaps". The problem is that the garage door flaps disturb the airflow over the horizontal stabilizer and cause a loss of control. Below 30 degrees is still okay for slips. You might want to check your poh to see if it mentions anything about that.

 

[Whirlwind]

Re: Re: Commercial PTS ?'s and 172RG

If it's placarded, it's a limitation for your specific aircraft. I'm sure that you would bust your practical if you ignored it. Again, ask your CFI, but you wouldn't catch me trying it...

It isn't a limitation and it isn't in the limitation section of the POH.

The reason Cessna cautions against slips with full flaps is because you can get tail buffet under certain conditions.

 

[Whirlwind]

I know that in our Cessnas, the poh lists as a prohibited maneuver "slips with greater than 30 degrees of flaps". The problem is that the garage door flaps disturb the airflow over the horizontal stabilizer and cause a loss of control. Below 30 degrees is still okay for slips. You might want to check your poh to see if it mentions anything about that.

Which model year is that Cessna?

Neither my 1977 172N nor my 1999 172SP have this as a limitation.

The 1980 172RG that I used for my commercial checkride doesn't have it as a limitation either.

 

[BeachBum]

Which model year is that Cessna?

The limit is for several 150's. Couldn't tell you what year though.

 

[Whirlwind]

The limit is for several 150's. Couldn't tell you what year though.

Ahh, Cessna 150, different beast.

I've never flown a 150 and I've only got 1.8 hours in a 152, so I really don't know about those.

I do know that a lot of people are under the mistaken belief that you can't do slips in 172s because it says "avoid slips with full flaps" on the panel in some of them. That is advisory in nature because it isn't in the limitations section of the POH.

Some 172s I've seen even say "slips with full flaps prohibited", but that is no more prohibited than a "MANDATORY Service Bulletin" is mandatory to a Part 91 operator.

Disclaimer: The 1977 172N is the oldest 172 I've flown, so I can only say for 100% certain that model year and newer is the above true. If anyone knows if the POH of an older model 172 actually does have this in the limitations section of the POH, I'd be interested to know.

Fly Safe!

 

[troy]

There is a difference between "avoid" and "prohibited". If at all possible, slips should not be used w/ flaps but it's not probibited.