Commercial in a T210

[ALIMBO]

So I started my commercial rating in a T210 the other day and boy was it a workout. Does anyone have any helpful hints to get me through this? This has been a huge jump since most of my time is in planes south of 200HP. I know all the commercial maneuvers but I learned them in a 172 and I'm afraid its going to be too hard to transition to the 210 and do it proficiently. Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks.

 

[LR60BOY]

When I did my Commercial, (1991ish) I did all the maneuvers in a 172. Then I rented a cutlass (172RG) to do the whole complex thing for the checkride. We went around the pattern once! There was quite a difference in the price of the 2 airplanes.

FWIW

 

[deadstick]

Bingo! You already know them. So, why pay a ton to relearn the maneuvers?

 

[midlifeflyer]

I agree with the others. Why not split the commercial practical? Takeoffs and landings in the 210, everything else in the 172. A 210 is a heck of a lot of airplane for training in anything other than how to fly a 210.

OTOH, if you want to learn the maneuvers in the 210, 2 questions:

1. have you been flying the other aircraft "by the numbers?" Are you doing so in the 210? IOW, do you know what power/configuration settings will get you the performance you need? I'm asking because a lot of pilots are not introduced to the concept until either instrument training or complex/HP transitions. Knowing the numbers helps with...

2. Are you setting up for the maneuvers well in advance? Even for a student pilot doing basic ground reference maneuvers in a 172, it helps a lot to be stable on airspeed and on altitude =before= starting the maneuver (with, IMO, not being set up the #1 reason for screwing up the maneuver). That is going to be far more of a problem with a much more powerful and faster airplane. If you're still trying to configure the airplane for the entry speed on a lazy 8, you'll still be fighting with it when you (unsuccessfully) complete the maneuver.

 

[ALIMBO]

I called the examiner today she said we can do the maneuvers in the 172 and some landings in the 210 and call it a day, but I have to pay 50 dollars more. Still the 172SP is 138 on the tach and the 210 is 195 on the tach so I will still save.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

It all comes down to you in the seat...where do you feel the most comfortable ? Manuevers in a 172 is most likely easier and less of a workload. Although the T210 seems a little more daunting....staying in the pattern to prove HP/ Complex proficiency should'nt be hard. Just remember to check "3 green, Gear down and Locked" prior to landing and you should be fine.

 

[ALIMBO]

My biggest problem is getting the damn thing slowed down in time. You can't just chop the power and go down and once you throw the gear down and flaps it drops like a rock! So timing is key this has been a hard plane to stay ahead of but not impossible I only have about an hour in it. Hopefully tomorrow will go better.

 

[propilot]

just a thought

Instead of chopping power and diving toward the runway, perhaps now would be a good time to learn how to make a stablized approach. Your life will be much easier... .02...

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I did my commerical in two different planes too. Maneuvers in a PA28 and the performance takeoffs and landings in a M20J.

 

[ALIMBO]

Instead of chopping power and diving toward the runway, perhaps now would be a good time to learn how to make a stablized approach. Your life will be much easier... .02...

I know how to make a stabilized approach I was simply stating that you can't just chop and drop in this kind of plane.

 

[Morettis]

You're right, its not just chop and drop anymore. When you get into bigger faster cleaner planes, its chop, get dirty and drop. And then once you're stabilized, you'll carry more power to maintain your speed on the way down to the runway.

 

[ALIMBO]

You're right, its not just chop and drop anymore. When you get into bigger faster cleaner planes, its chop, get dirty and drop. And then once you're stabilized, you'll carry more power to maintain your speed on the way down to the runway.

Exactly I find myself coming in with a little bit of power in this plane. But I can land this thing way smoother than a 172, I think its because it doesn't float at all.

 

[millhouse21]

Remember in a 210 it's just "one green." Do look out the window though and have the examiner do the same from the right seat.

 

[ALIMBO]

Ya I always do my instructor usually does the same. We've had some hiccups with the plane. The gear retracts but the the door won't close so we don't get a positive indication of the gear up and the handle will stay in the up position so I gotta do some + and - g's to help it get closed. The flaps also like to trip the breaker and not extend all the time so I have to reset on final usually to get them down all the way. LOL ghetto I know.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

What is considered "Stabile" in part 91 ops. ? Just curious if there is a difference between "Parts 135, 121, 91 etc.."

 

[ALIMBO]

Did you mean stable?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

What is considered "Stabile" in part 91 ops. ? Just curious if there is a difference between "Parts 135, 121, 91 etc.."

An example of a typical "stabilized approach" in GA:

IFR - Stabilized by 1000' AGL (ILS)
IFR - Stabilized by MDA (NP)
VFR - Stabilized by 500' AGL

Stabilized criteria:

Gear down
Flaps set
Heading established (for wind correction)
Steady needles
Constant airspeed
Constant descent rate

Basically, have the landing configuration achieved with little or no corrections by establishing your heading, airspeed and descent angle prior to reaching these altitude milestones.

Any time this criteria is not met by these altitudes, you should GO-AROUND. You'll see how important this concept is to adhere to when it comes to flying low IFR.

 

[momalley81]

An example of a typical "stabilized approach" in GA:

IFR - Stabilized by 1000' AGL (ILS)
IFR - Stabilized by MDA (NP)
VFR - Stabilized by 500' AGL

Stabilized criteria:

Gear down
Flaps set
Heading established (for wind correction)
Steady needles
Constant airspeed
Constant descent rate

Basically, have the landing configuration achieved with little or no corrections by establishing your heading, airspeed and descent angle prior to reaching these altitude milestones.

Any time this criteria is not met by these altitudes, you should GO-AROUND. You'll see how important this concept is to adhere to when it comes to flying low IFR.

Forgot two-

135 freight >200-1/2 - Stabilized by the airport fence
135 freight <200-1/2 - Stabilized by DH

:laugh:

 

[Goose Egg]

At my company in the E-120 we consider an approach to be "stabilized" if the airplane is straight in, on approach speed, and configured for landing by 500' AGL for VFR approachs, and by 500' to approach minimums for IFR approaches. The beauty of flying part 91 is that within the FARs, you get to decide what you are comfortable with. I personally think that requiring yourself to be stabilized by 1000' in a light piston is probably overly conservative, but that's just me.

Every commercial student that I ever signed off (and they all passed) did the commercial maneuvers part of the checkride in a Cessna 172, and then did the pattern work in a Piper Arrow. It's the way to go, as far as I'm concerned.

One other thing that you may want to think about while flying the 210 is keep the engine from cooling down too quickly, i.e. "shock" cooling. High-airspeed/power-off descent, this could happen pretty easily, at least without some advanced planning. Just one more thing to think about... oh joy!

Take care and good luck.

-Goose

 

[Amish RakeFight]

At my company in the E-120 we consider an approach to be "stabilized" if the airplane is straight in, on approach speed, and configured for landing by 500' AGL for VFR approachs, and by 500' to approach minimums for IFR approaches. The beauty of flying part 91 is that within the FARs, you get to decide what you are comfortable with. I personally think that requiring yourself to be stabilized by 1000' in a light piston is probably overly conservative, but that's just me.

The poster inquired about 91 which I'll assume is for personal IFR flying in a light aircraft. What your company SOP's predicate with trained line pilots is one thing, but for a guy flying occasional 91 on instruments is another thing.

Stabilized at 1,000' in IMC isn't really that conservative for an ILS approach, especailly for a new instrument pilot. That's how I instructed instrument students to execute an ILS approach. Remember, most OM's are about 1,400 HAT and at 1,000' AGL, you're well into the commencement of the glideslope. If you really aren't stabilized (everything being close to a constant, with minimal corrections) by this point in the soup, you had BETTER go around. Chasing needles below 1,000 AGL in IMC is DANGEROUS. The plane should be in severe hands-off trim riding the rails with fingertip corrections.