Comm rating questions

[Pilotadjuster]

multi reqs

Just got through going through Pt 61 requirements in excruciating detail over the last month or so. From what I have read, if you get your multi commercial first, you WILL have to perform the commercial maneuvers - Chandelles, Lazy 8s, etc. My instructor had one student who did this a few years ago and the examiner made him "follow along" on the Pylon 8s, as he didn't feel comfortable doing those with a new ME pilot... not sure how kosher that was, but in any case, the regs read that you have to perform the same maneuvers if the ME is your INITIAL comm ride. Also--if ME is your first comm ride, you would have to do all of the commercial cross country requirements in a multi, which is pretty costly. Much less expensive and sounds a bit easier to do as a single add-on rating. For the add-on there are no requirements outside of the 3 hours prep time before the test. Of course, you'll need a bit more than that before anyone would sign you off for a practical.

 

[flyboy]

Guys,

You absolutely DO NOT have to do lazy eights, eights on, etc. for the initial or add on multi commercial. READ the PTS for the multi-commercial. I just took this checkride. You only do steepturns, slowflight, stalls, vmc, short field landing, x-country w/ diverison. It is a piece of cake checkride. At no point in any rating will you have to do lazy eights, eights on, etc. in a multi. It's only for the single, whether it's add on or initial. I don't currently have a single commercial.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

multi reqs

Can't argue with actual experience - thanks for the info!

 

[bobbysamd]

You still have to do the drag demo, don't you? I can't remember the exact name of that AO, but it's the one where you set zero thrust on the non-critical engine and put in incremenents of flap and gear, etc., and finally have zero sideslip to observe the rate of decent.

 

[Timebuilder]

I used a drag demo during training, but I don't believe it is in the PTS. I don't have the books right here to check, though, and I could be wrong.

Since the Single commercial has the more interesting flying, and since the maneuvers may take longer to learn, go there first. You already have you single instrument, right? Get the instructor to sign you off on the complex aircraft, and go practice. Every couple of flights, fly with the instructor to make sure you are doing things right, and not practicing bad habits. This will save you money. Meet the other requirements and go take the single commercial. Now, do the multi/comm/inst as an add-on. It's just like a multi private, with commercial steep turns, and the things mentioned above. A couple of approaches in the multi, a single engine multi aproach, and you've gone from single instrument to multi instrument.

Other schools do it differently, FSI being one of them. I think the way I described allows you to save on instruction charges with the complex signoff, allowing you to lower your cost of practice. You can't do that in the twin.

I agree that most DE's won't do the single and multi rides the same day. There's too much possibilty of brain lockup.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

suggestion

Suggestion also--I know I haven't worried about getting my multi yet because its hard enough to find a job flying commercial single with low time, let alone multi. Put it off because of $ of course and because I'd want the multi time to be "fresh" when I look for a job.

If you are going to get your CFI as well, I'd suggest working on right seat stuff and doing your flight requirements for the CFI while building those 60 hours to 250 total (flight requirements regarding "log ground and flight training" - depending upon the FSDO, they want that very specifically logged, as far as instructional training goes). Chances are very good you won't need 60 hours to become proficient in commercial maneuvers. If you can talk through the instruction of commercial maneuvers, actually performing them on your checkride will be a piece of cake!

Id echo what Timebuilder said about the manuevers being challenging as well as fun to practice....

Good Luck!

 

[Eagle]

"if you get your multi commercial first, you WILL have to perform the commercial maneuvers - Chandelles, Lazy 8s, etc.

I Also wanted to chime in, you will NOT do the 8's and chandels etc in a multi.

I have my multi comml/inst and do NOT have my single eng comml.

 

[Timebuilder]

Back when I was working on my instrument rating, I asked about doing Chandelles in a twin. I wish I'd had a camera to capture the look on the guy's face.

No, there are no "commercial maneuvers" for multi like the single commercial requires.

Now Bob Hoover can probably do ALL of them.....

..or at least he used to...

 

[bobbysamd]

Initial CFI

Although initial Commercial certification in the single is cheaper, I like the idea of getting your initial Commercial in the multi, and then earning your initial CFI (MEI) and II in that airplane. Good way to really get a lot of bang for your multi buck. Isn't that what All-ATPs does?

Initial CFI is tough, any way you do it, because you have to know the FOI cold. After that, MEI shouldn't be that bad because you will be fresh on the maneuvers and fresh on the systems. Chances are, you will have to draw the multi systems on your Commercial ride. You will have to do the same for your MEI. You will also be fresh on instruments, so doing the II makes sense. You probably can knock off all three on the same practical. Then, later, find a 172 and do your CFI-A. The examiner should not demand that you use a complex/high-performance single because you already demonstrated that on your CFI-MEI ride.

Interesting about no more drag demo requirement. If I went back to instructing, I would probably at least introduce it to my students. It's a good aspect of their multi education. Same reasoning for eights-around for the Commercial single.

Good discussion.

 

[Eagle]

All ATP will not give you a multi comm unless you have your single comm already.

atleast not here in NJ