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zugzug

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I posted below previously. I know with almost 300 views that someone knows, has, or heard of someone who has the same thing. If you need to. Private me. Please and thank you. I need help.



I failed my 121 initial a few years ago and with my tail between my legs, I bailed from the scene. I left flying. Has anyone ever failed an initial and went to another company and got a job. I would like to hear some stories and comments.
 

PositiveRate

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The reply to the original post about not giving up was an adequate response...that's probably why no one else responded.

You're putting the focus on the failure and the subsequent retreat. It needs to be on how, why, and where you fell short and how you can learn from it so that it doesn't happen again. It's not an end-all be-all for getting another job. It could actually make a good talking point in an interview if you put a positive spin on it. Don't expect an interviewer or anyone on this board to say "I'm sorry, it's ok", though. Just pick up the pieces and get back in the saddle if that's what you want.

You failed a 121 ride....big deal. It's what you learned from it and how you will apply those lessons to future training that airlines are interested in.


Best of luck with your future flying.

PS. here's the original reply from DesertFalcon "You can never fail, if you never give up!"
 
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avi8tr

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Reply to zugzug and positive rate,

I totally agree with Positive Rate. Don't let this failure block out the possibility of success later. Use it as a learning experience. The job is harder to get then ever and you have to use all of your resources (study, practice, study, and fly) to your advantages. I myself have failed recently. One was that little Mechanical Aptitude test at Skywest, I'm hoping to take it again in October. And the other was a sim ride for Island Air. Wasn't prepared, and started to chase needles. But on the other side, I got hired by a Part 135 and will be able to stay current with a 414.

The point is, I'm 44 and I am competing with guys half my age and with twice the hours sometime. But I'm not giving up, I want to wear that uniform, and I want to fly a nice plane for the rest of my life. So it's worth it to me to do whatever it takes to get one eventually.

I hope you do too.

Av8ter
 

bobbysamd

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121 ride failure

At least you got a chance.

Ya know, there are plenty of folks who would have jumped for joy just to have a chance to take a Part 121 checkride. There are many people who try, and try, and try for years just to get a class date. There are people who indeed quit because the clock strikes midnight and they turn into a pumpkin, and can never be considered again because time ran out on them. They never got their chance.

Having said that, I'd say that you start applying and try again. You got a chance; maybe you can get a second chance. This time, try a little harder. When you get that chance, count your blessings and consider yourself fortunate to have been given a second chance when others never get one at all.

Best of luck to you.

By the way, avi8tr, beware of age discrimination. It exists in regional airline hiring. I was there and experienced (suffered) it in the early 1990s, when I was a mere stripling of 40. Indeed, you are competing against people young enough to be your children. H.R. at the regionals screen according to a profile, and being older than Jack Benny doesn't fit their profile (Jack Benny always told people he was 39. I'm old enough to remember that. ;) ).

Lots of luck to you, too.
 
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zugzug

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Not meaning to be smug. You can't wait till your 33 to start an Air Force flying career and cry foul. Why would the airlines be diff? I think everyone missed the point of the post. I wanted suggestions on how to continue, how to aknowledge the bust during the interview, what the chances were of getting a job-----and with who. I wanted suggestions from people that had done it. I am finding that there is no one out there that has done it. I don't need pep talks, poor thing, try harder next time, or your lucky you got a chance. I thank you for your time and responses but they fell a little short of the mark. Just like any other interview, I am trying to have appropriate answers that will please the interviewer's.

p.s. bobbsamd, Do you jump for joy just because you got the chance to win a bazillion dollars in the lotto and didn't? We all put our dollar in.

DO YOU THINK FAILURE IS AN ACHIEVEMENT?

As the airlines say, NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

bobbysamd

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Getting a second chance

No one ever said failure is an achievement, my friend. Failure can be a learning experience. I failed plenty and learned plenty. I have written a lot about my failures on this board so others may learn from them.

I'm just saying that you should be grateful that you got a chance at something others would die for. Yes, siree, we all play our dollar. Many of us play several dollars. As I wrote above, plenty of people try for years, over and over again, for an interview, and never get a chance. You're one of the lucky few. I'm sorry your 121 ride didn't go well.

While we're on the subject of lotteries, gaining the attention of H.R. is like playing the lottery. You send your resumes, you takes your chances. Therefore, that's where you have to start. So, begin by applying again. Look at it this way. Airline H.R. tends to screen by profile. You met the profile once before. If you got a chance before, chances are good you'll get one again, so, the odds are in your favor.

At interview time, you tell the truth. I would never, ever, volunteer information. Just answer whatever is asked of you. If you're asked what happened the first time, you just say it was a real blow, you needed time to think, you learned from it, you've grown from it, you're a good pilot and will prove yourself to be an asset to the company if you're given a chance. There's no right or wrong, black or white answer. Say what's on your mind and say it with sincerity.

Good luck with getting another chance.
 
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charley varrick

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There is only one "perfect" answer to these types of interview questions: the truth. You must tell the truth as to your bust, and, more importantly, you must relate how you learned from this challenge, applied that learning, and are better for it.

I have known people who got fired from a Pt 121 carrier and moved on to another flying job. Maybe that was just because it was the 90's, but in any case it demonstrates perserverance. They didn't have a magic trick to get them that job after, they just perservered and didn't give up, fessed up and got hired.
 

RichardFitzwell

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bobby always gives good advice.

zugzug, you will have to explain why you left aviation after your bust and why you feel you are ready to try again. I agree with bobby. Explain the self-evaluation process you have gone through since you left aviation and what you have done to overcome the setback.

Now you have to become marketable and get an interview. You should take this lull in airline hiring to start small. You have to get current if you aren't already. Get back into flying as an instructor or as a check hauler. Do whatever you can to get some experience back and to prove to yourself and to any future interviewers you intend on succeeding in aviation. With your experience, it shouldn't take long.

I busted a 121 ride before and I was afraid it would hold me back and become a huge stumbling block during future interviews. I explained the bust and what I learned from it a hundred times in my head. Once the interview finally came, I was ready to go in-depth. I brought it up to the interviewer and he said, "No big deal. Everyone has at least one."

It really isn't a big deal but get flying again. Don't expect an interview with a 121 carrier right off. Good luck.
 
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ILS JNKY

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Sales & Flying

Are a lot a like in many ways as i have found out during the last 2 years that i have been flying and learing.

After 15 yrs of sales experiance, failure in sales one big one that comes to mind is not closing enough leaving steps out of the sales cycle, just not going by the numbers, you know doing what it takes.

Flying has a lot of different things going on all around you , so i have found out at this time. but just learning from mistakes is a goodso when fialure raises its ugly head I just keep moving forward, ie i never see failure as failure only as an opertunity to sharpen my skills.
 
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RichardFitzwell

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ILS JNKY said:
Are a lot a like in many ways as i have found out during the last 2 years that i have been flying and learing.

After 15 yrs of sales experiance, failure in sales one big one that comes to mind is not closing enough leaving steps out of the sales cycle, just not going by the numbers, you know doing what it takes.

Flying has a lot of different things going on all around you , so i have found out at this time. but just learning from mistakes is a goodso when fialure raises its ugly head I just keep moving forward, ie i never see failure as failure only as an opertunity to sharpen my skills.

ILS JNKY,

I hope you complete your flights better than you complete your sentences.:) :) :)
 

avi8tr

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To all concerned,

One way NOT get a job, is not knowing how to spell and use proper grammer in your sentences. I don't mean to be a prude or a smart a@# but hey, some of you guys really need to get with the program. It might not be your flying after all.

I'm just venting, don't be pissed, just think about what I said.

Your friend,

Av8ter
 

bobbysamd

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Typos and sales

Really, Avt8tr's point is extremely well taken. You should be fastidious about your writing and grammar. I say that not only because I love to write and because writing is extremely important to me, but because you are judged by how you speak and write. Your materials are your spokesmen. I don't believe that H.R. people are as well schooled in English as they once were and might not catch the misspellings and typos they once caught. But, they just might, and that gives them an excuse to place your materials, and a chance at career advancement, into the round file.

ERAU made its Aeronautical Science majors take a course in technical writing. So did Mesa, when I was there nine years ago. I always tell people that along with taking as much math and science as possible they should take plenty of English, and especially English composition and speech. If you write and speak like a moron, people will think you're a moron. Get a seasoned writer or secretary to proof your materials if you're unsure of your proofreading skills.

I like the sales example. You have to sell yourself, within the extremely narrow constraints that the application and interview forum provides. And, if you see the opportunity, you have to ask for the order, i.e., the job.

Lots of luck to all aviation job seekers. Take it from someone who's been there, done that, it's a jungle out there.
 
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chillidawg

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You must chill!

Grammar this, grammar that. So what if his spelling wasn't exactly correct? I'm sure there are many mistakes on my post, but what about the content of the previous post? Does that count for anything? A good friend of mine has problems with writing, but happens to be the most gifted archetect (sp?) I have ever seen. He's talented in many ways, a little less in others. Most of us welcome your posts, ILS, because we want to hear what you have to say, and you don't have to have a Harvard Professor look at it first. :)

ChilliD
 

CaptBiff

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zugzug

Try not to focus on the negative. I had failed numerous rides to earn my tickets. But when I interviewed for a 121 job they never asked if I had. When I finally got in training, was I ever worried? You bet I was. So I studied my butt off and made it through no problem. The point being, never give up, keep working hard and stay current on everything and everything. This is the easiest job in the world, and it was worth all the days of anxiety.

Good luck
 
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