Comair's fate hinges on Delta

[jarhead]

lowecur

Thank you. Now I understand what you mean. Once DAL absorbed the subsidiary into its own corporate structure, then Comair would no longer be a W.O., but would be part and parcel of the mainline entity.

I know that raises a whole 'nother can of worms if that were to happen. It would be interesting to speculate on what would happen to the pay scales for pilots, as Delta has no contract with ALPA for flying regional jets.

Maybe a judge would simply have to make a ruling on the pay scales. It also would be perplexing as to the seniority of the now integrated list, would it not?

My head hurts thinking about that one.

 

[lowecur]

My head hurts thinking about that one.

Relax, I doubt that scenerio would ever play out due to the complexities of each pilot groups contracts(even if all contracts could be renegotiated as one in Chapt11). You'd have a bigger mess than exists now.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I pray not.

Jarhead says, "It also would be perplexing as to the seniority of the now integrated list, would it not?"

Perplexing? It would be horrifying. Unless there were long fences any integration that would occur with 1000+ pilots on furlough at Delta would generate literally HUNDREDS of furloughs and downgrades at Comair.

It would decimate the junior half of the list.

Wife says, "No More Furloughs."

 

[jarhead]

Jarhead says, "It also would be perplexing as to the seniority of the now integrated list, would it not?"

Perplexing? It would be horrifying. Unless there were long fences any integration that would occur with 1000+ pilots on furlough at Delta would generate literally HUNDREDS of furloughs and downgrades at Comair.

It would decimate the junior half of the list.

Wife says, "No More Furloughs."

10-4 on that.....I agree with your wifes sentiment on that subject. Your screen handle tells me she and you have probably had enough of that game of musical chairs.

Let's all hope that the "troubles" will be solved without BK for DAL.

 

[Publishers]

Profit

Profit is notational in that it does not state whether this is profit before interest, taxes, and depreciation. I always love it when people talk about an operational profit. When you have billions in debt, trust me interest is an expense and one which eats your lunch.

The way these are subs are set up, they are almost guaranteed to churn a paper profit. You do not sit down with the head of Comair and say -- here is your budget and plan for next year, you are to lose $10 million. They are paid in a way that assures a paper profit of some level and they can do better or worse depending on their management.

Could Delta sell Comair, absolutely. They can sell anything they own. First of all, let's just say they did,,,,, that alone might keep them going out o f 11 well past the time required for contracts to be voided. If the are granted "Debtor in Possession" status they could still sell it.

In the end, they can do pretty much what they want to. The only question involves loan covenants and that kind of thing with their financors.

What seems to be forgotten here is that after the Comair strike, DAL said that they would never get in posiiton again where the tail wagged the dog. That was to be the last time that they were held hostage by one of their regionals.

The last thing they want to do is take them into their own house like the Trojan horse.

 

[sleeve]

8. We should indicate our willingness to accept a "pure staple" with DL mainline and beg the DL pilots to consider it (the company might agree if we do all those other things above first). That way a 3-yr DL furloughee can be senior to a 25 yr CMR captain. That is their rightful place anyway, so why not give back to them what they have given to us? We won't lose more than 1000 jobs, so most of the "lifers" that we have will still keep their employment. Some might have to downgrade, but so what. The increase in the quality that the company will get from the "experience" of the DL pilots is well worth it. This is a little risky because the DL pilots might give concessions in work rules too and that might furlough a whole lot more. Still, the beneift of a staple outweighs the risk. Everything will be back to "normal" in 10 years anyway. Not to worry.


I do have a question,

I undersand that if we did/were to be stapled to the bottom of the Delta seniority list about 1000 of us would have been furloughed....including me for the second time......but putting that aside for now...

My question is why would it be so upsetting being junior to a say 3 year Delta FO...that FO would most likely want to be on the 73 or MD80...And assuming (and it would be a pretty sure assumption) that the rest of them would want to avoid the RJ also...a 20+ year Captain from Comair would still be a most senior Captain flying the RJ..you would still be bidding very high on the RJ just where you are now...and assuming the destinations and frequencies would be fairly constant there would be a high probability you would maintain the same schedule...It would be like a middle of the road seniority guy at Comair, being a senior 50 seat guy now because everyone ahead of him went to the 70 seater....the way I see it now your relative seniority on the RJ would NOT change.
Unless for some reason guys flying the Boeing products wanted to come down to be 50 seat Captains. Which in my opinion would be unlikely.

I'm not entirely for or against a staple, just trying to get a viewpoint from both sides....and this is all disregarding the current furlough situation at the present or post 9-11....

 

[mooser]

My prayers are with Delta and Comair People!!!


Mooser

 

[Russ]

Sleeve



In general terms I agree. There are however exceptions. I know two mid range DAL skippers who have side businesses. Both said the would jump at doing day trips on the RJ allowing more time at home and at their side jobs. They were talking about SkyWest RJ's as they are SLC guys but it very easily be the same at ATL, DFW, etc.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

My prayers are with Delta and Comair People!!!


Mooser

But ASA is just SOL!!!

 

[sleeve]

russ,


I see your point and agree there would probably be a few indviduals who would want the schedule they could receive if they bid down to the RJ,

one plus side to that is it opens up those slots to maybe an RJ guy wanting to move up ..Not necessarily to the very large equipment but maybe the 73, or 80....Its always nice to ponder these things that will for all intensive purposes not happen.. Its been a slow couple of months here at Comair...

 

[DAL737FO]

How is this for a staple option? Comair and ASA merge by whatever method they come up with then there is a staple on the bottom of the mainline list. Now any new movement to mainline equipment is offered, in seniority order, to the combined Comair/ASA list. Now to protect the 25 year RJ Captains quality of life (qol) when his seniority number comes up for a mainline slot comes up he has the option of A.taking the move to the bottom of the mainline system retaining his years of service for pay but goes to the bottom of the pile for bidding or B. Bypassing the mainline number permanently and retaining his seniority and bidding rights on the Comair/ASA list.


Now how would mainline guys get anything out of this? Well in good times probably not too much but in bad times, like now, if a mainline guy gets pushed down and over into the Comair/ASA fence then he/she has to accept what his DOH would hold on that list again protecting the senior Captains from getting bumped by a "three year mainline pilot"

Just a thought that will never happen because management likes the ability to go to the lowest bidder. I will also give management credit for learning from their mistakes. No regional airline will ever have the effect on a hub like Comair did in CVG. They have overlapped the routes quite nicely now.

 

[General Lee]

With the very very good chance of huge pay cuts approaching, it now seems that the pay rates of Delta FOs and DCI Capts will be fairly close, and the economic differences of having two seperate entities might now NOT make as much sense. (except to whipsaw) A staple, with fences for protection of the DCI junior pilots, would be fair I think---and future 100 seaters would have returning furloughs and maybe DCI people wanting to fly bigger. As far as Delta pilots moving to CRJ Capt--that could occur--but the chance of DCI pilots moving up to MD88 etc also could happen. When all this financial stuff is eventually sorted out---a staple could be exactly what DCI wanted (better chance for retirement) and returning furloughs could get a chance to get back into a cockpit. But, there is nothing to say that this would ever be approved by managment or Dalpa or the DCI MEC people..... It is something to think about though....

Bye Bye--General Lee