Comair. Would you do it all over again?

[surplus1]

Surplus1,
are you smoking crack again, for three or four years in a row, ending Oct. 1999. Everyone, EVERYONE, paid $11,000, for their job. You were too old and senior to even care.

You are correct, I am old and senior. I'm also very familar with the "Comair Academy" and its $10 or $11K AQP program. It is true that prospective employees of Comair had to attend a program there prior to employment but that program didn't "buy" anyone a job. It is OK with me to call it PFT or not as you prefer. Whatever it was, it was not desirable.

I take issue with your statement that I didn't care. If you knew who I am and what role I played, including with relation to that "program" and its elimination, you would not say what you did.

I'll chalk it up to your lack of knowledge and forget it but I will say this, much of what you have at Comair today, you have because of my work and my efforts, along with many other dedicated people. Enjoy it.

Take the chip off your shoulder and try to become a Comair pilot more than in name.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Say what you will about the Dornier Jet, but unless you're flying something military, nothing outclimbs it.

Nothing like chiming the F/A 1 min and 52 seconds after takeoff. (I love doing that when off-line folk are in the back.)

 

[surplus1]

Thanks for asking me to clarify the confusion I created, Surplus1. My apologies again. I enjoy reading your posts and hope to fly with you someday. Maybe I already have.

Regards,
V-1

Thank you for your reply. There is no need to apologize, I just wanted to understand where you were coming from and now I do. I appreciate your taking the time.

I'm sorry that the AQP kept you from getting here sooner. It was a bad program and the pilot group never wanted it or approved of it. We finally got it eliminated.

The Comair union did not mount a crusade against it for two reasons: 1) the pilots in the program were not employees of Comair and 2) our contract already contained a prohibition against any Comair pilot paying for training.

It was not possible for us to negotiate a provision of our contract that covered a subsidiary of Comair Holdings, Inc., which is what the "Academy" was. I know the ads say that the Academy is owned by the Airline, but in reality it never has been. That is admittedly a technicality, but it is one that precludes our ability to negotiate anything that happens there. Pilots in the AQP were not employees of the airline and were not guaranteed that they would become employees of the airline (although many did and I have little doubt that the Academy people "sold it" that way.) In fact, it was similar to the SWA type rating deal, except you didn't have the option of doing it elsewhere if you wanted to work at Comair. Many "graduates" of the AQP also went to other airlines. Therefore, Comair pilots decided to invest their negotiating capital elsewhere.

I didn't mean to "rag" on you and if I came across that way, I'm sorry.

In responding to the basic question of the thread, the answer for me is YES, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

You must understan V-1 that I am a real Comair pilot. What I feel and how I feel about Comair pilots is difficult to put into words. By that I mean I'm not passing time, not trying to get experience to go somewhere else, have been here long enough to know a little about the good times and the not so good times and to contribute something to the culture of Comair. If any Comair pilot is threatened, I'll not hesitate to come to his defense.

After you've been here a while you will learn that "culture". If you like it, it will be great to have you on board. If you don't, then I hope you'll be able to move on to whatever you prefer.

All I ask is that while you are here, be and act like a Comair pilot and make us all proud to share with you. If you decide to leave, try to leave what you found a little bit better than it was when you got here. I hope that's not to much to ask.

In other words, stand shoulder to shoulder with your fellow Comair pilots and help to keep us the proud and outstanding people that we are. Don't ever look down on another pilot, and that includes those that are not Comair pilots. If you find a brother lacking, put out your hand and help him to rise up. Don't ever step on him, just because you can.

If you are willing to do those things, you are welcome among us. Whatever you paid or didn't pay is irrelevant.

Maybe we will share a cockpit one day and maybe not. In either case, nice talking with you and best wishes.

Best regards,
Surplus1
CMR

 

[surplus1]

I bet Surplus1 doesnt even realize Comair went on strike with a mass exodus that followed.

Surplus1 IS a Comair pilot. Yes, some people left during the strike, but "mass exodus"? That's baloney.

 

[V-1]

All I ask is that while you are here, be and act like a Comair pilot and make us all proud to share with you. If you decide to leave, try to leave what you found a little bit better than it was when you got here. I hope that's not to much to ask.

I understand your feelings towards Comair and the efforts you've made to build the company and improve working conditions for fellow pilots. As I stated, had you and our fellow Comair brothers not refused to blink during last year's strike, my career path would most likely have taken a different path. Because of your efforts, I enjoy better workrules and pay than the overwhelming majority of regional airline pilots. The efforts of you and our Comair brothers are why I decided to pursue a career at Comair again. It's a great place to be now, and appears it will be in the future. I'll do my part to facilitate that future.

 

[surplus1]

It's a great place to be now, and appears it will be in the future. I'll do my part to facilitate that future.

Thanks bro and welcome aboard. There's a Comair jet in a lot of people's futures and this is still "The Best Little Airline In America".

PS.
It was always a great place to be, even though there were a few things we didn't like. However, the Comair spirit will gradually disappear under the Delta yoke. The job will still be there though.

 

[abenaki]

Hey Shark,

I don't think you ever got a decent reply to your question and I don't know that mine will be much better, but I'll try.....

Please keep in mind that I left to come here to Net Jets as a result of the strike and a fairly well-informed opinion that it was possible that DAL was simply going to shut Comair down and re-organize the whole thing.......There were a number of things leading me to NJA and I put my "money" on that avenue and am quite happy in that decision......

I'm not making the money that I would over at Comair but I hope that will change with OUR next contract where I think I will be able to well-surpass what I would have made there. But, that may be nothing more than wishful thinking......

In my opinion, you will not find a better group of pilots and flight attendants than you will encounter at Comair. They fought one heckofa battle against tremendous odds. The cohesiveness of the pilot and pilot/fa group was tremendous. Of course, I attribute a lot of that cohesiveness to the stupidity of the Lorenzo goons that Comair management brought in to break the union. Their tactics were old and well-known, so every time they pulled something it just p.o.'ed the pilot group and made them ever so more resolved......But they never waivered......I think the strike vote was 99.7%......

So, if you want to work some some pretty awesome people, I can't think of a finer group to belong too.

I started there in '95 and yes, I PAID FOR MY TRAINING.......If you don't like it, too bloody bad. (That's not directed at you Shark, but all those on their soapboxes who look down on others who did pay for their training without knowing the circumstances, economic climate ad naseum who somehow feel fit to judge others actions without walking in theri shoes) I was 38 years old, out of my family businesses that had been sold and out of my home that was on family property that had been sold (all beyond my control). I didn't have a lot of choice and needed a career path. So, I wrote the check after flight instructing and "paying my dues" flying night charter work in the winter time in the northeast. I had about 1900 hours when I got to Comair and 500 multi in Barons and 310's, mostly.

Like most places the training is intense but I think pretty good. Not as good as here at NJA (try 32 hours of sim time for the CRJ at Comair versus 52 hours of sim time for the Citation "X" at NJA....and that's just one example) but darned good overall.

Being halfway senior when I left, I had a reasonble schedule and I imagine that you can get a better one now with their new contract. The pay has increased so (I assume) that new hires make enough so they don't qualify for food stamps anymore......The pay tops out at, what, about 100K after 18 years, isn't it?

I think the minimum days off is up to 11 from 10. Reserve may be better now, but being on reserve basically sucks. Maybe the reserve rules have changed a bit with the new contract, but I was on reserve long enough to know that reserve isn't much fun. (No real reserve at NJA in the traditional sense.)

Like a lot of places, seniority rules so the more senior you get, the better life you will have.

I don't have a lot to compare it to, but I thought the RJ was a fine airplane with some quirks just like any other airplane.......It handles well, is reasonably reliable, has good systems, great synoptic pages for the systems, it's quiet, a comfortable cockpit, and really won't bite you......It was a dog above about FL250 (where the "X" is just picking up a head of steam ready to blast through the 30's at .84-.89 at 1500FPM assuming ISA isn't too hot).......

Comair's route system is expanding and they're going to a lot more places than they used too.......I got weary of going to all the "flat" spots in the mid-west........The overnights tend to have you either getting in late or waking up early for your "week"......
You're flying one end of the clock or the other most of the time. They still have "high-speeds" which are a whole other story but some guys like them and bid the new high speed lines.......

The other question you have to ask yourself is whether you want to work for a company like that. Frankly, I thought that the management there pre-strike was just plain evil. I never thought one group of human beings would act with such deliberate malisciousness against another especially when they were all making so much bloody money. The level of avarice was just unbelieveable to me.......and their tactics where abhorrent. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, "Never was so much evil done to so many by so few"......

DAL allowed Comair management to blow $780 million (by ALPA's estimate) on that strike in order to maintain power and control and NOT let the "regional" ( a misnomer if there ever was one) pilot achieve what s/he truly deserved. Frankly, I'm not sure that I could have gone back to work for those people........I know this, my stress level is zip compared to what it was......But, you have to recognize that it is significantly better over there from what my friends there tell me.....though some beg to differ even to today......

Like someone on here said, this business is a big dice roll.....Listen to your gut, talk to people, do your research and make a decision.......

I learned a lot at Comair.....no doubt of that.....and one of the greatest things that I learned was that there are some fantastic people in the world that I will be proud to have as my friends until the day that I "fly west".......You should have seen the "drive-by's" that the Comair F/A's did in support of the picketing pilots......You never saw a group stand taller or walk more proudly than those picketers when those F/A's drove by honking their horns and creating all kinds of headaches for Comair managements pr people. And you might be suprised at the number of jet jocks with tears in their eyes when those drive-by's occurred......quite a sight......

Would I do it again? Yes. As I said I learned a LOT about a LOT of things and not just flying airplanes either.......Life is a journey and the experiences we have along the way are what its all about.......Would I rather be sitting in some airplane making $150k a year? Of course. But, that didn't happen for me and I know many a "major" airline pilot who made it to the "show" when I didn't get as "lucky" (and believe me, if anyone tells you that there isn't a great deal of luck or fate involved in this business, they're full of it) who are now on furlough while I'm having a blast at NJA thanking God for not letting me get to the majors so I could be furloughed.......

I don't know if this helps.....I hope it does.......Try to find some current Comair pilots who would be willing to talk with you a while about how it is over there now as compared to pre-strike......I doubt that you'll find it to be nirvana, but maybe a good place to go......

Take care. Best wishes.....

 

[Shark]

thanks very much for your response, you finally got to my question.