Comair will NOT get the 30 Dorniers???

[GogglesPisano]

We have responded in detail. ACA has a scope clause. All flying will be done by ACA seniority list pilots. Our MEC shot down the idea of a J-for-J program a long time ago and therefore it will not happen.

If J-for-J happens at another airline, it is because that airline's pilot group:

1) Had no scope clause, or
2) Voted to approve a J-for-J deal, or
3) Their MEC ratified the agreement, in which case the pilot group has the option of recalling their MEC

 

[FDJ2]

Re: Re: Comair will not...

Nothing like pulling stuff out of your pooper to try to rain on every else's parade. Your hypotheticals are completely devoid of rational analysis.

You've broken the RJDC code book.

 

[BlueRidger]

There was a Crew Room meeting with the DO and the 4th in command at ACA. They were in CVG to dispel some of the rumors and observe the operation. I hope they saw DAL's excellent deice operation in full swing. During the meeting they said that ACA does not have a problem with DAL and the Airbusses but that it was a problem with DAL and DALPA (as we all know). If Delta wants to break the contract they can do this at any time for any reason but that they must give 6 months notice. They also said very emphatically that NO NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN. SO THE DORNIERS WILL BE AT ACA FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 6 MONTHS!!!
The Airbuses are scheduled to be online in November or August depending on UAL and other factors. So at that time ACA will cause DAL to be out of compliance with DALPA's contract. At that time DALPA can file a grievance. Delta can then accept it and send ACA 6 months notice. Or Delta can fight the grievance and who knows how that will go OR if DALPA wants to waste the negotiating capital on 30 32 seat planes. This means that the DORPHANS (good name) will be at ACA for probably at least another year.

ACA got very favorable leases for the Dojets. Especially engine leases. If they transfer the aircraft, these leases usually won't transfer and I bet Pratt and Witney is itching to get out of those leases. This will make the dojets even more expensive to operate and not economically viable to any other company to operate as a cost plus service, including Delta.

As for J4J... bring it on...DAL pilots can have any slot left after we bring back all of our furloughs. On the other hand if one looks at the bottom of our seniority list they will see many names of people who left ACA for DAL and were furloughed from DAL then rehired at ACA (some are furloughed again.)

 

[N2264J]

Comair will not...

We have responded in detail.

No one has answered the question yet. Using my ACA example as an illustration, do you better understand the grievance and the intent of the RJDC lawsuit?

I do agree with you that I am jealous but it's not because your airline is getting bigger planes. From what I've been able to gleen so far, it's because:

- Your management is going to take care of you and will go out of their way to avoid labor unrest.

- ALPA is looking out for your best interest.

- Unlike every other airline in the union, you have airtight scope.

- Jets for Jobs is not possible on your property because it just can't happen.

 

[46Driver]

I just woke up, refreshed, and will take one more crack at this.

Jets for Jobs is a travesty - no one is going to dispute that.

Me - and many others - do not give a d@mn about the RJDC one way or another.

At ACA, there is NO incentive for management to try and instigate a jets for jobs program because:

ACA is not making a profit with the Delta Connection contract here in the short term.

ACA wants to get rid of the Dorniers in the long term due to high maintenance costs and lack of support with Fairchild Dornier's bankruptcy.

Delta has already said that we could fly the Dorniers under our ACJet operating certificate and there would be no conflict with DALPA's scope clause - ACA's response was, "No Thanks" and is hoping DALPA will force Delta to take the DoJets off of our hands.

FOLLOW THE MONEY - it is a better business decision to drop the DoJets and the Delta Connection contract, it would also cost some money to have labor unrest at the beginning of a new startup.

 

[Tim47SIP]

46driver

Delta has already said that we could fly the Dorniers under our ACJet operating certificate and there would be no conflict with DALPA's scope clause - ACA's response was, "No Thanks" and is hoping DALPA will force Delta to take the DoJets off of our hands.

Hey, was this actually put out in this manner. I haven't read anything official that insinuates this, but I have read several references that state that ACA does indeed want to keep the Delta contract as that is 28% (?) or so of their operating profit. I also remember a reference (2 months ago) by ACA management that stated they had a work around for the DALPA PWA and that keeping the contract was not going to be an issue. Seems to me that the best thing for Delta to do is get rid of those aircraft all together and replace the routes with Comair aircraft since they are situated in that region already. My gut feeling is that ACA will keep the routes untill Delta management is forced (by DALPA) to sever it's relationship with ACA. It will cost Delta management because it will be they that has to give notice. ACA signed their contract with Delta way before the PWA was signed and is/was not bound by the 71 plus seat rule (per ACA's contract).
Should be interesting, but I bet the DoJets will be around for a while, alot longer than many people think.

 

[46Driver]

I would guess that the operating profit is closer to 2.8% or maybe even 0.28%..... And if the DoJets go back to Delta, I don't know if the Pratt and Whitney engine contract goes with it. Nobody wants the DoJets, so my bet is that ACA and Delta maintain the status quo regardless of when Independence Air starts up. I am curious to hear what the mainline Delta pilots think.

 

[Patriot328]

IAnd if the DoJets go back to Delta, I don't know if the Pratt and Whitney engine contract goes with it.

Man if the engine contract (warranty) doesn't go with the planes, whoever gets the jets would be better off to just dig a hole that could hold all 33 airplanes, fill it with money (no small bills $50s and $100s please), and set it on fire....

 

[46Driver]

Man if the engine contract (warranty) doesn't go with the planes, whoever gets the jets would be better off to just dig a hole that could hold all 33 airplanes, fill it with money (no small bills $50s and $100s please), and set it on fire....

Maybe we can sell them to Johnny O..... with no engine contracts and no 1vE panels.......

 

[House_X]

Man if the engine contract (warranty) doesn't go with the planes, whoever gets the jets would be better off to just dig a hole that could hold all 33 airplanes, fill it with money (no small bills $50s and $100s please), and set it on fire....

That was funny.

I agree w/ 46driver regarding our Delta contract. Someone else mentioned Delta has no problem with us flying Airbuses. No way. There is no reason why Delta would not fight us on this one. We are directly competing with Song and mainline Delta. Why would Delta pay us to help fuel competition against themselves? When those Airbuses show up in IAD, and the next day you see a bunch of CHQ or MESA emb-135's at the CVG alpha gates...DON"T BE SUPRISED!!!!

 

[46Driver]

House,
Another reason (in addition to nobody wanting the Dorniers) for Delta to keep ACA is that we are not their primary competition. Our main competition is going to be JetBlue, AirTran, USAir, and UAL - all of which are of more concern to Delta than we are. Something like the enemy of my enemy is my friend.....

In other words, as long as we are causing UAL and the others more pain than to Delta, I don't see a change. I am sure Delta would love to get UAL's Pacific route structure for a Song (pun intended....)

 

[General Lee]

I think you are correct 46drivr. I don't think Delta looks at you the way UAL or USAir does. Not to say that you won't be good competition---it's just that you pose MORE of a threat to UAL (hence their collusion deal with Mesa) and possibly taking some traffic away from USAir at DCA. I believe most of your flights will target the people living in the DC area and area near IAD, with connections made North and South etc(with some transcons in there too). Delta mainly feeds its ATL and CVG hub from IAD, with a SLC flight or two in there also. Your primary target will be UAL--and they are getting nervous. We shall see if it works.

Bye Bye---General Lee