Comair Vote Results ???

[JoeMerchant]

Attacking an organization is slightly different than attacking the names and personalities behind them. My judgements about the RJDC are based off of their publications, press releases, and other materials. I have never met any of the people involved in the RJDC...but I am aware of their claims and their publications. I disagree vehemently with the mission statement, claims, and lawsuit of the RJDC. Even if the mission were a valid one in my eyes, the method in which the RJDC is trying to get its point across is where my real angst lies. I'll leave it at that for now.

If you want to continue to have a rational debate, so be it...if you are going to take a stab at me from an anonymous perch, nevermind.

-Neal

Neal, I too went back and re-read my post. I don't really see any difference between my attack and your attack. You are attacking RJDC and I am attacking ALPA and whatever the committee de jur is this week. I don't know you personally, and am not attacking you personally. You are however very loyal to ALPA and am what I would consider an "ALPA true believer". That is what ALPA likes to appoint to these do nothing committees. ALPA is being run by politicians, not leaders - their is a huge difference.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal, I too went back and re-read my post. I don't really see any difference between my attack and your attack. You are attacking RJDC and I am attacking ALPA and whatever the committee de jur is this week. I don't know you personally, and am not attacking you personally. You are however very loyal to ALPA and am what I would consider an "ALPA true believer". That is what ALPA likes to appoint to these do nothing committees. ALPA is being run by politicians, not leaders - their is a huge difference.

Let's see...you say you aren't attacking me personally yet you also are calling me a "true believer" and a "politician" when you don't know the first thing about me or my history with ALPA nor do you know about my tolerance for "do nothing comittees." Interesting. I simply attacked the RJDC's mission and method. Big difference and if you can't see the difference, oh well...we'll have to agree to disagree.

For your own edification, here is what you said above...the bolded part implies a personal attack in my eyes. Don't worry though...I'm a big boy and have taken my share of jabs over the past few years.

I see now why you were picked for yet another useless Herndon committee. Have you at least read the scope committee reports from 1995? If so, you are ahead of TW. Speaking of TW, is the BSIC still in business? If so, how will it fit into your committee. I guess that will be a new "joint task force". It will be the BFFDBSCTF, or Bilateral Fee For Departure Brand Scope Committee Task Force. Oh well, when your finished with your report can you send me a copy - I can file it with the rest of the ALPA and IACP reports dealing with this issue. I may need another filing cabinet though as this one is filling up.

 

[spinproof]

Neal, I too went back and re-read my post. I don't really see any difference between my attack and your attack. You are attacking RJDC and I am attacking ALPA and whatever the committee de jur is this week. I don't know you personally, and am not attacking you personally. You are however very loyal to ALPA and am what I would consider an "ALPA true believer". That is what ALPA likes to appoint to these do nothing committees. ALPA is being run by politicians, not leaders - their is a huge difference.

Save wear and tare on your keyboard. You will never convience them of the folly of their allegiance. To some it's hard to tell whose kool aid is better! Managements or ALPA's!

When there's an argument over characterizing someone as an "Alpa true believer" and this is somehow name calling, then you are dealing with a contrarian and your point is lost.

The point you make above is dead on! Your verbal adversary believes opposite. Hence the fractured Comair pilot groups dilemma.

The Comairs MEC's handling of the latest LOA is irresponsible and reprehensible. Leaving the people whom depend on their leadership twisting in the wind. This, to me, shows ALPA's true colors for all to see!

 

[JoeMerchant]

For your own edification, here is what you said above...the bolded part implies a personal attack in my eyes. Don't worry though...I'm a big boy and have taken my share of jabs over the past few years.

I see now why you were picked for yet another useless Herndon committee. Have you at least read the scope committee reports from 1995? If so, you are ahead of TW. Speaking of TW, is the BSIC still in business? If so, how will it fit into your committee. I guess that will be a new "joint task force". It will be the BFFDBSCTF, or Bilateral Fee For Departure Brand Scope Committee Task Force. Oh well, when your finished with your report can you send me a copy - I can file it with the rest of the ALPA and IACP reports dealing with this issue. I may need another filing cabinet though as this one is filling up.

Attacking an organization is slightly different than attacking the names and personalities behind them. My judgements about the ALPA are based off of their publications, press releases and other materials. If that sounds familiar, those were your own words, I just replaced RJDC with ALPA. "Useless Herndon committee" is slightly nicer than "vitriolic yellow journalism spewed by the RJDC" Either we both made personal attacks, or neither of us made personal attacks - they were the same type of attack. You personally are probably a great guy. I would probably enjoy having a beer with you. The union and this new committee you are on has become a truly useless organization in my opinion.

 

[taloft]

Surplus,
Excellent point! A pilot at any airline is going to look out for only ONE person. Might as well accept this law of nature, and wait for the industry to hit bottom.

Surplus' post outlined that basically every pilot group has made concessions, lost their jobs, or both. There is no sign of it slowing.

I wonder, is there a bottom?

 

[pilotyip]

Wrong button

see below

 

[pilotyip]

There is a bottom; the lower end airlines like Pinnacle have to up the ante to fill classes. They can not lower their minimums anymore, they are now offering signing bonuses, hotels, and a stipend. Economic pressure works on both ends. Soon they may have raise wages to attract pilots, which is raising the bar.

 

[taloft]

I believe Horizon is the best paying "regional" at present. If you went there and start in a turboprop, it will take you 3-5 years to make that. If you start in the CRJ-700 you could do it in two years. Those are the numbers.

To be accurate, Horizon doesn't pay FO's for the aircraft they are flying. They pay them for what their seniority can hold. In short, 2-year CRJ FO's are making $32/hr because they are actually receiving Dash-8 pay due to their relatively low 2 year seniority. Currently, it requires 5+ year as an FO to be able to draw CRJ pay. Upgrades are at 6 yrs.

 

[surplus1]

Thanks. I have a copy of your contract.

 

[xjhawk]

well, i am unsure about ripping union leadership but here it goes.......why doesn't our great fearless ALPA leaders set some sort of bottom for pay at the regional level......setting a bottom level would stop some of the whip saw and the race to the bottom....i talked to our MEC chairman about it, he said they had a regional conference and that was brought up...but once agan, i got the brush off talk about it....want every regional pilot out there to talk to his or her MEC about setting a standard...min pay rate.....livable.....fair etc....a starting point for all negotiations....and if any alpa regional carrier votes for less, all members are kicked out of ALPA and their banned from further membership (IE future mainline jobs)

would this fly in todays world...am i living in a dream world.....maybe....since i have seen two pilots, one of which was a frined of mine say....if we had the lowest rates, imagine how many new airplanes we would get.........and fast upgrades.....What the F*&^! most of us at XJ will not accept any concessions in our fake bankruptcy......no matter what...... and as for COMAIr i think they have done the most for our industry, that strike showed that at least one pilot group had the balls to stand up for their rights to make a living at the regional level. Too bad every other Mesa wanna be in this industry stabbed them in the back......and lowered the bar when they were just beginning to raise it.

FLY the LINE, even if its crooked or covered in snow......