Comair Vote Results ???

[CarjCapt]

Surplus1:

Respectfully I don't agree, and we have respectfully disagreed before, with your contention that a "no" vote would have resulted in Comairs' devistation.
Based on the history of "last and best offer" by management I believe we would have negotiated further. Having said that my "no" vote at my senority ment that it would be difficult at best to start anew. My options were few.

The reason for my "no" vote is based on 17 years of watching, as you have said before, Comair go from a stepping stone airline to a Career Airline, with pay, work rules and benefits that were the best in the regional industry.

My vote was emotional rather than rational because anyone who understand our industry from a business stand point would vote "yes" and lived to fight another day. I just couldn't do it.

 

[Sucka]

Surplus is so great

I am proud of anyone who voted yes, thus condeming the FO group to four years of poverty. You are happy now, paying your mortgage and feeding your family. But FOs cannot... We will not make $35k-$40k a year for the next four years. FOs will make less than CHQ and barely above Mesa... Is that the kind of quality you want in your right seat? You get what you pay for. I am happy that the CPT group is surviving, but you better have some sympathy for your bitter FO group... Why did the FOs get hit so hard? Why did the company propose to have the same payrate for 40-90 seats for FOs and not CPTs? Because Fearless Fred wanted the CPTs votes, and he got them...

I am proud to vote no, because there was no urgency to vote yes at this moment in time. Why have we allowed the company drag out our previous contract negotiations?

 

[pilotyip]

Sucka you should show the company the ultimate no vote, vote with your feet if enough people vote with their feet it will get the company's attention. You could make more at almost any on-demand place, Net Jets, even AirNet.

 

[Sucka]

I am leaving the company b/c of the YES vote by Comair... I also realize that my departure will have absolutely no effect on the company.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus1:

Respectfully I don't agree, and we have respectfully disagreed before, with your contention that a "no" vote would have resulted in Comairs' devistation.
Based on the history of "last and best offer" by management I believe we would have negotiated further. Having said that my "no" vote at my senority ment that it would be difficult at best to start anew. My options were few.

I have no problem at all with that. We made a different decision and I respect your decision. I was not upset with the young man because he voted NO and I said so. I was upset with his reason. He said that he voted no because he had "nothing to lose." Then he said he was embarrased to wear our uniform and did not want to be associated with this pilot group. Those are the things that got me so upset, not the NO vote itself.

I obviously do not know with certainty that a NO majority would have resulted in the demise of Comair. I could be wrong and readily admit that. I tried to evaluate the information provided by our NC and MEC as best I could together with my own analysis of the business environment and Delta's dire economic situation. I came up with the answer that a YES vote was the only viable option under the circumstances.

In my opinion the company's "last and best offer" in this circumstance is very different from a last and best offer in normal negotiations. We were not "negotiating" at all, we were responding to an ultimatum. Perhaps we could have re-arraanged the chairs on the deck of the Titanic (Delta) but, as I see it, Comair isn't big enough to affect anything that Delta is doing. What they want they have the power to take in bankruptcy, and I'm not refereing to 1113(c). I do not believe that Delta would have sought contractual relief from Comair pilots in the courts. If they were going to do that it would have been done at the time they filed, as it was with the Delta pilots.

Unfortunately, we have nothing in our contract to prevent the transfer of the equipment to another DCI carrier. We have nothing to prevent Delta from simply returning our aircraft to the lessor. In my opinion, Delta management is not concerned with what happens to Comair, they are concerned with what happens to Delta and they are desperately in need of cash. They will do whatever is necessary to get it. It is still a very real possibility that Delta itself may not emerge from bankruptcy. If they can get 500 million by liquidating Comair they will do it without a second glance.

This YES vote does NOT guarantee the survival of our company and I know that. All that it really does is provide some more time for Delta to solve its problems. We are one of those problems. That's is Delta's fault but it still doesn't change reality. My hope is that the new contractual terms may, and I say again may, attract an outside investor who will buy Comair as a whole and provide Delta with more "cash" than it would get from selling or returning the pieces. IF that happens, and it's a big IF, we will have the chance to rebuild our company and recover from the havoc created by Delta. Comair people deserve that chance. We may not get it even with these cost reductions, but I feel we would not get it without them. It's not just the 17.3 millions from the pilots; it's a total of 70 millions from the Comair family. In other words, they are forcing us to "buy" our freedom.

Comair pilots have done what the pilots of every other bankrupt airline have done. I'm sure that ALL of them hate the decisions they have had to make just as much as we do. I wish were were exempt but being "owned" by Delta has prevented that. It's a sad state of affairs but we have to play the hand we've been dealt. Emotion does not change the cards.

There is no doubt in my mind that this "contract" is a POS. However, many of the other regional contracts out there are still bigger POS. That made our regular contract stick out like a sore thumb. When you have a sore thumb you either cure it or cut it off. Bankruptcy gives Delta the ability to "cut it off".

Please don't think I voted YES because I feel it was a "good" decision. I felt it was the "only" decision. When you play Russian Roullette there is supposed to be one bullet in the chamber of a six-shooter. That ostensibly gives you 5 chances to come up with a "blank" when the trigger is pulled. When you know there are 6 bullets, one in each chamber, the game of Russian Roullette becomes intentional suicide. Comair people don't need to pay for the stupidity of Delta Air Lines with their lives.

As the song Gambler says, "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em". A former president of ALPA once told me ... "never point a loaded gun at the company's head unless you're prepared to pull the trigger". In this particular case, I wasn't prepared to pull the trigger with the lives of 6,000 people at stake.

We have lost this battle and there's no two ways about that. With a little bit of luck we can recover and eventually win the war. That is my hope.

The reason for my "no" vote is based on 17 years of watching, as you have said before, Comair go from a stepping stone airline to a Career Airline, with pay, work rules and benefits that were the best in the regional industry.

I understand your reasons and I respect your decision. Even though it was different from my own, it does NOT create any hard feelings on my part. You were one of us before you voted NO and in my book you still are!

You have a great deal to lose and you still voted NO. That makes me feel proud of you. I also feel proud of those who had just as much to lose and voted YES.

Those with the attitude "I had nothing to lose so I voted NO", don't even deserve the right to vote at all. In my book, people who feel they have "nothing to lose" should not have the right to decide the future of those who have a great deal to lose.

My vote was emotional rather than rational because anyone who understand our industry from a business stand point would vote "yes" and lived to fight another day. I just couldn't do it.

I admire your candor. It takes courage to admit that your vote was "emotional". Believe me, we have the same emotions. The only difference between us is that I tired to put my emotions aside. I voted with my head, not with my heart. It wasn't easy and I'm not happy that I had to make this choice. I pray that it was the right one for all of us and yes, I lose sleep over it.

Best regards.

 

[9rj9]

JC Lawson

MEC chairman J.C. Lawson is also to blame, he couldn't keep Comair mgmt at the table and got the take it or lose it option. Did you know he pulls down 160K a year, never flys, and is out with his ALPA buddies drinking beer on your dime. He buys trips for his Reps that in turn keep him in office. Throw this bum out, he is part of your problem. Oh ya take his side kick Bill "I'll tell you what you want to hear" Baker with him. What has he been doing for the past 3 years besides collecting a paycheck.?

 

[172driver]

Surplus,

I generally respect and agree with your opinion, but you are way off base on this one. You have no right to attack me on the basis of one sentence in a flightinfo post. You certainly seem to have made a lot of assumptions on why you think I voted the way I did. Because I said, in the end, my decision came down to my needs, you assume I took no one else into consideration?

I definitely weighed the needs of every employee in this company, my needs, my family, and the other pilots in the industry before I came to a decision. You assumed otherwise. Probably the biggest factor in my process, as I said earlier, was that these new rates do not pay fair market value for a CRJ FO, nor for a pilot with my level of experience. The FO's got thrown under the bus here...by the company, by the union, and by their peers, i.e. you.

We went from mid $40K, 60% of CA pay, to low $30K, 55% of CA pay. That is a huge difference when you are at the low end of the earning scale, but I'm sure you remember that, right? The difference, for me, is owning my own house versus an apartment with roommates. How much weight did you give my needs when you voted to put my job at a subsistence wage? Yeah, I'm sure you thought about the FO's, but it really didn't sway you, did it? In the end, it was about saving YOUR job.

You see, in the end, our personal needs and those of our family always win out. You voted to save your job and I voted to save mine, for it is not a job I can do at the proposed wage. I would guess many FO's felt the same way.

Only 2 airlines now pay less than Comair for first year new hires. They are SKYW and ASA.

At year 2 and after these concessions and the "common" FO scale, we now pay CMR FO's less than XJT, SKYW and ASA. We still pay more than MES, PCL, PSA, REP and TSA.

At year 5 FO pay is less than SKYW, ASA, XJT, AWAC & Horiz. It is still more than REP, PSA, TSA, PCL and MES.

CRJ-200 CA (& Equiv. 50-seat) -- CMR now pays less than SKYW, REP and XJT. The same as AWAC, PSA, PCL and TSA. More than ASA & MES.

CRJ-700 CA -- CMR now pays less than AWAC (146), ASA, REP and Horiz. Same as PSA and SKYW. More than MES.

Knowing how sharp you normally are, I have to say I am a little surprised at how badly you botched your analysis of our new rates. You seem to have missed the fact that we all lost a year of longevity with the Feb. LOA. Thus, in making any comparison, a 5 yr guy must look at the new 4 yr pay, 10 at 9, etc. If you do that, you will see that, in every category, we are lower than everybody but Mesa. In fact, the 70 scale is equal to Mesa.

This is what you voted for...bottom of the barrel. This is also why I am embarrassed to share the same uniform. We voluntarily went from the very top to the very bottom, in the blink of an eye. Had the rates actually been industry average, or DCI average, I may have been able to stomach it.

Somehow, the company and our union were able to convince us, even a sharp guy like you, that these are DCI average rates. How did that happen? Everybody seemed to forget that we gave up a year of service, saving the company an untold number of additional millions and placing us on par with Mesa.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

I didn't know your dad works for Phred...

That isn't quite how it works brainiac. Apparently you are not terribly familiar with the process under the RLA.

...and by the way I don't work for Mesa (or CHQ), but you soon will. This sweetheart of a deal you fellers just handed management is just what they needed to get Ornstein to pony up to buy you at Delta's little fire sale.

Portfolio Phred is sitting back laughing his ass off while his manservant bathes his assh0le in Congnac that you guys paid for.

 

[uba757]

Surplus, I dont understand how you could even think that this is the end of it. Delta probably went to Mesa and said "You can have Comair for almost nothing with a pay freeze" and Mesa probably said we need something lower a more permanent in the pay scales and benefits and that is what you just gave them. Next step will be Mesa saying that they like what they see but just need the scales to be a little lower to make the deal. Fredy will come back and ask for more and you will give him more because now you have nothing to bargain with, nothing at all. UBA757

 

[D'Angelo]

I have also lost respect for the group who struck in '01, most of who, I believe, voted yes for this proposal. I now understand that they never truly felt that their jobs were on the line in '01, but were simply using their leverage. When their jobs were actually threatened in '06, they folded like a house of cards.

If anyone strikes or tries to "send a message" in todays environment the result is simple. The contract is cancelled and the flying goes somewhere else. There is no leverage in this economy. Unfortunately its like a vicious cycle. Like they always say you have to know when to hold em and when to fold em. 01 was the time to hold em. 06 was the time to fold em. Tell me one thing that would have been accomplished had the vote gone the other way. All that would have happened was everyone else swooping in and no one even appricating the sacrifice. The non existant bar is lowered either way. The only question left to ask yourself is "Got open time?"