Comair Vote-it's official

[bvt1151]

I'm not sure about that. I think the "potential buyer" has dictated the terms here.

At any rate, the vote was so close (16 pilots), I seriously doubt Fred will ever come back to the well without something big on the front side.

Ya think? It seems to me his credibility is all spent.

He had very little going in, and now he has none. With a 16 pilot spread, no concessions will ever be voted in at Comair again.

 

[ReportCanoa]

He had very little going in, and now he has none. With a 16 pilot spread, no concessions will ever be voted in at Comair again.

Too late. Change your ID badge to read: MESA

 

[737 Pylt]

I'm not sure about that. I think the "potential buyer" has dictated the terms here.

At any rate, the vote was so close (16 pilots), I seriously doubt Fred will ever come back to the well without something big on the front side.

Ya think? It seems to me his credibility is all spent.

He had very little going in, and now he has none. With a 16 pilot spread, no concessions will ever be voted in at Comair again.

Not flaming here, but you guys are kidding yourselves if you think that! Coming from a pilot group who has now "raised (or lowered) the bar" on concessions, one thing you can count on....Never count on not counting on it!
737

 

[jetflyer]

Good luck to you all Comair Pilots.

The vote you made was a difficult one and you made the decision you felt was right for you.

I wish you all luck and hope no one has too much financial hardship from the paycuts.

Atleast you're not all taking the ultimate paycut from losing your jobs.

Like many others have said, you did what you had to do. Don't be ashamed and don't listen to other groups, not even ASA. They don't care about the future of Comair, only the future of ASA and if they're going to have jobs and a good career, just like the Comair guys are worried about.

ASA is up next. I bet they take the next cruddy contract they are given because they will be threatened to have all their planes sent to Skywest. If you ASA guys do accept the cruddy contract they're gonna offer you, you will never be able to say bad things about Comair or any other group again. Good luck to you guys and you need to be less militant toward others and just worry about yourselves. Do what you think is right for you until ALPA can show some leadership and protect us all. Until then it's not going to stop and you're gonna have to make the decision you think is best.

Good luck to you all,
Jet

 

[JustaNumber]

ASA is up next. I bet they take the next cruddy contract they are given because they will be threatened to have all their planes sent to Skywest.

Wrong. The main difference is ASA pilots have been given the shaft for so long now, with so little respect, that they will overwhelmingly vote yes to walk, just on principle. Damn the growth, they just won't be treated that way.

Do what you think is right for you until ALPA can show some leadership and protect us all. Until then it's not going to stop and you're gonna have to make the decision you think is best.

Until ALPA can show some leadership?! I wouldn't hold your breath. It's going to take an individual pilot group or two to say "NO!" to concessions for growth. Either that airline will fail, showing management that they should have found other ways of making the numbers work, or the airline will succeed, showing other pilot groups that it's possible for an airline to pay barely a living wage and still prosper.

 

[surplus1]

I'm not sure about that. I think the "potential buyer" has dictated the terms here.

Yes, the need to convince a potential buyer to become an actual buyer is of course a key element. However, there would be no need for a buyer if we had never been bought by Delta in the first instance. Being "owned" by Delta is what got us where we are today. Delta has destroyed our company in its 5 years of ownership. ALPA national has also played a part in helping them to do it; a big part.

At any rate, the vote was so close (16 pilots), I seriously doubt Fred will ever come back to the well without something big on the front side.

Ya think? It seems to me his credibility is all spent.

I agree that the very close vote is a good indicator that our well is dry. "YES" by a wide margin would only bring them back for more. NO would make me feel better but it would also have been suicide (in the cause of others), which makes no sense. I think the majority has made the only logical decision. I'm not happy about it and don't know anyone that is but I do think it was necessary. I don't see the close vote as being divisive and we should not take that attitude. This was a very tough decision and that is why it was so close. As I see it, the vote wasn't close because Comair pilots are at odds with each other. It is close because of the difficulty of the decision. We lost the battle but we have given ourselves a chance to fight again on another day. Custer's last stand didn't make him a hero, it only proved him to be a fool. There is no glory in winning a battle but losing the war.

As for Fred's "credibility" that depends on how you choose to look at Fred. If you're realistic, Fred is called the CEO but it would be more correct to call him the COO. As long as Comair is "owned" it's president is not really a CEO. Comair is a shell corporation with no BOD and no assets. It has been that way since the day we were acquired by Delta. Fred is a puppet who must do whatever Delta directs him to do. They tell him more than they tell you and I, but Fred doesn't call the shots and never has. That's not his fault; it goes with being a subsidiary. Fred isn't a Comair executive and never has been. He's a junior Delta executive assigned to run Comair. I don't say that with any malice or negative feeling towards Fred, it's just reality.

I'm not singing Fred's praises either so don't misunderstand. He is the architect of the "portfolio concept", which in turn is responsible for the infamous RFP. Nevertheless, he is now also its victim. I guess you could call that poetic justice (for him). For us it sucks no matter how you look at it.

There are four prime causes of difficulty that affect Comair in a negative way. 1) Being a subsidiary of another company; 2) The FFD concept; 3) The portfolio concept; 4) The mainline Scope clause.

Putting faith in Fred's "credibility" has never been a logical reason to vote one way or the other. Not last time and not this time. Those who made their decision on that basis (especially on the first go) just didn't think it through.

What dictates our current position is the ownership of Delta Air Lines and the unique ability of Delta's management to turn triumph into disaster. In less than five years the airline with the best balance sheet has become the airline with the worst balance sheet and the greatest debt. Delta did that to itself and by osmosis also did it to Comair, which before Delta also had the best balance sheet on the regional side. That's not Fred's fault, he was never that high on the Delta totem pole.

We really have no way to judge Fred's "credibility" as long as we are "owned" by Delta or for that matter anyone else. Fred can't be a real CEO unless Comair is an independent entity with its own BOD and its own stock. That's not going to happen unless there's an IPO. Not much chance of that with Delta in bankruptcy. If we are purchased by independent investors .... maybe. If we are bought by another airline, it won't be worse but in terms of Fred's true status nothing will change. He'll still be no more than COO.

Think about it.

 

[zonker]

Nice post surplus.

As a former Comair pilot, I have always tried to keep up to date with what goes on over there. I remember waking up to the news that Delta had purchased Comair. It felt terrible then and it feels even worse now.

Best of luck

 

[Junkflyer]

Here's a couple tips for the yes voters. They're not true for every airline, just most.
#1 Airline management will always try screw the employees for their own benefit.
#2 If you let them, they will screw you harder.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Good point justanumber. I think it will take a group of pilots falling on their swords and putting an airline out of business. The next airline exec will say "we can't have that!! I can't move my family and lose a couple of months of salary before finding another group to shaft!!" "let's find OTHER ways to cut costs!!"

Problem is, who would do that? Commit short term career suicide. I don't know but I believe at some point some pilot group WILL say "I'd leave rather than work for that!!" Will it be ASA? it IS possible. We're pi$$ed!!

Reminds me of a drug addict. Has to hit bottom before recovery can start

 

[surplus1]

Nice post surplus.

As a former Comair pilot, I have always tried to keep up to date with what goes on over there. I remember waking up to the news that Delta had purchased Comair. It felt terrible then and it feels even worse now.

Best of luck

Thanks my friend. Best wishes to you whereever you are today. It may take a while but if this provides the opportunity to free ourselves of that stone, we'll be back.

Regards