Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
Comair Training
- Thread starter RichO
- Start date
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
Its gonna take you approximately 3 months from Indoc to completing IOE. About 2 and a half months to get out of the sims to IOE.
Reserve time is a shot in the dark. Used to be about 6 months, but its been 6 months for me, and I was the junior guy until only a few weeks ago. Now of course I've been jr. manned to the 70 seater, so it could be another couple of years for me, unless I can figure out a way to get back to the 50 seater without that 3 year freeze.
With hiring on a rollercoaster, its tough to say how long on reserve, but I'd say 6 months to 2 years, depending on any number of possible situations.
Reserve time is a shot in the dark. Used to be about 6 months, but its been 6 months for me, and I was the junior guy until only a few weeks ago. Now of course I've been jr. manned to the 70 seater, so it could be another couple of years for me, unless I can figure out a way to get back to the 50 seater without that 3 year freeze.
With hiring on a rollercoaster, its tough to say how long on reserve, but I'd say 6 months to 2 years, depending on any number of possible situations.
skiddriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 405
I was in the 17 Jun class and just finished IOE a couple of weeks ago:
1) Near zero. Advertised pass rate is around 98%. Everyone in my class passed, and only two needed any extra sim time. This was out of 10 peeps - 8 new hires, 1 previous class roll back who had a personal problem which the company allowed him to work out, then come back to training, & 1 CRJ CA who had been out of the cockpit for several years working the contract negotiations and wanted to repeat initial. 4 previous airline folks (Eagle, CCAir & Mesa), 3 flight instructor (two academy, 1 not), 1 corporate Challenger guy, 1 military (me), and of course the previously qualified Comair CRJ CA. Just take notes and try not to ask too many detailed systems questions. They'll teach you what you need to know, indepth questions just slow down the class.
2) In this case, it's when you get force displaced into the 70 seat jet as a junior FO. Some folks are giving the plane a wide berth, as the schedules aren't fully fleshed out, and the chances of staying on reserve for a long time (years vice months in the 200)are really good. Establishment planning recommended against bidding for the 70 seat on the perm bid during basic indoc for new hires. If you get forced displaced, you can eventually bid back out of the seat to the 40/44/50 seater. If you bid for the seat (including putting the 70 seater above the smaller jet on your perm bid) you are seat locked. Ask establishment planning to explain the whole thing during indoc. It won't take them long. Your pay is the same the first year, the 70 seat is about 300$ more a month after that.
3) No new hires are being junior manned as of yet. They come up ineligible on the bid packs.
4) Miller22 will have to answer this one. Normally goes in reverse seniority among eligible FO's.
Good luck.
1) Near zero. Advertised pass rate is around 98%. Everyone in my class passed, and only two needed any extra sim time. This was out of 10 peeps - 8 new hires, 1 previous class roll back who had a personal problem which the company allowed him to work out, then come back to training, & 1 CRJ CA who had been out of the cockpit for several years working the contract negotiations and wanted to repeat initial. 4 previous airline folks (Eagle, CCAir & Mesa), 3 flight instructor (two academy, 1 not), 1 corporate Challenger guy, 1 military (me), and of course the previously qualified Comair CRJ CA. Just take notes and try not to ask too many detailed systems questions. They'll teach you what you need to know, indepth questions just slow down the class.
2) In this case, it's when you get force displaced into the 70 seat jet as a junior FO. Some folks are giving the plane a wide berth, as the schedules aren't fully fleshed out, and the chances of staying on reserve for a long time (years vice months in the 200)are really good. Establishment planning recommended against bidding for the 70 seat on the perm bid during basic indoc for new hires. If you get forced displaced, you can eventually bid back out of the seat to the 40/44/50 seater. If you bid for the seat (including putting the 70 seater above the smaller jet on your perm bid) you are seat locked. Ask establishment planning to explain the whole thing during indoc. It won't take them long. Your pay is the same the first year, the 70 seat is about 300$ more a month after that.
3) No new hires are being junior manned as of yet. They come up ineligible on the bid packs.
4) Miller22 will have to answer this one. Normally goes in reverse seniority among eligible FO's.
Good luck.
Thanx skid...
I think he answered 1, 2 and 3 pretty well. One thing on your first question, Comair wants you to finish training, and will go out of their way to help you meen the standards, which is indicitive of the rest of the company. However its ultimately up to you to meet the standards. Since you're concerned enough to ask the question, I don't forsee any problems for you. As for question 4, I was jr. manned. You'll usually find me at the bottom of a seniority list, and you will now on the 70 seat list.
How it happened? They opened a bid and all of the pilots who wanted to go to the 70 seater were allowed to bid for it. If they're looking for 20 pilots and 21 want it, the most jr. pilot in the 21 doesn't get it. If they're looking for 20 pilots and 19 want it, they'll open a secondary bid. If they don't get somebody to fill that 20th spot, they'll look to the most jr. man available (finished IOE and no freezes, etc.) and force him in, hence "jr. manning". Well that happened and there were about 6 or 7 spots open, which means they jr. manned 6 or 7 of us (can't remember off the top of my head). The real crapper is that if anyone with higher seniority (earlier hire date) wants to go to the 70 seater, they slip in above us, so movement is rather slow, if there's any at all for us.
So in a nutshell, thats jr. manning, and thats how it happened to me. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
I think he answered 1, 2 and 3 pretty well. One thing on your first question, Comair wants you to finish training, and will go out of their way to help you meen the standards, which is indicitive of the rest of the company. However its ultimately up to you to meet the standards. Since you're concerned enough to ask the question, I don't forsee any problems for you. As for question 4, I was jr. manned. You'll usually find me at the bottom of a seniority list, and you will now on the 70 seat list.
How it happened? They opened a bid and all of the pilots who wanted to go to the 70 seater were allowed to bid for it. If they're looking for 20 pilots and 21 want it, the most jr. pilot in the 21 doesn't get it. If they're looking for 20 pilots and 19 want it, they'll open a secondary bid. If they don't get somebody to fill that 20th spot, they'll look to the most jr. man available (finished IOE and no freezes, etc.) and force him in, hence "jr. manning". Well that happened and there were about 6 or 7 spots open, which means they jr. manned 6 or 7 of us (can't remember off the top of my head). The real crapper is that if anyone with higher seniority (earlier hire date) wants to go to the 70 seater, they slip in above us, so movement is rather slow, if there's any at all for us.
So in a nutshell, thats jr. manning, and thats how it happened to me. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
ShaftedbyJI
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 29
Anaconda
FLY ARMY!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 594
thanks for the reply...
before i posted i checked out the list for the 70-seater. there is one person on there that has a three year freeze; everybody else has a one-year freeze.
so why did that one person get frozen for three years vice one is my question...
reference: seniority # 1390, freeze start date 8/30/02, freeze end date 8/30/05
all i can say is "ouch"...
before i posted i checked out the list for the 70-seater. there is one person on there that has a three year freeze; everybody else has a one-year freeze.
so why did that one person get frozen for three years vice one is my question...
reference: seniority # 1390, freeze start date 8/30/02, freeze end date 8/30/05
all i can say is "ouch"...
Last edited:
jetflyer
Concerned Citizen
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2002
- Posts
- 2,040
Miller,
You must be ok. My bid packet says that everyone has a 1 year freeze even the number that Anaconda mentioned. Maybe there was just a typo at first?
Oh and I'll be getting hopefully only the 1 year freeze when I get junior manned really soon. I'm definitely going to the 70 as it looks right now. See ya soon miller
QUESTION for anyone that may know: Ok I get JMed into the 70.
Then I want to go back to the 50 which is bidding down in pay, am I then stuck in the 50 in a 3 year freeze as an FO like Shafted mentioned???
Jet
You must be ok. My bid packet says that everyone has a 1 year freeze even the number that Anaconda mentioned. Maybe there was just a typo at first?
Oh and I'll be getting hopefully only the 1 year freeze when I get junior manned really soon. I'm definitely going to the 70 as it looks right now. See ya soon miller
QUESTION for anyone that may know: Ok I get JMed into the 70.
Then I want to go back to the 50 which is bidding down in pay, am I then stuck in the 50 in a 3 year freeze as an FO like Shafted mentioned???
Jet
Last edited:
Anaconda
FLY ARMY!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 594
now that i have access to a contract...
5. Except as otherwise provided in paragraph O.11., below, a pilot awarded the
same status in a different equipment with the same rate of pay will incur a thirtysix
(36) month freeze.
6. Except as otherwise provided in paragraph O.11., below, a pilot awarded the
same status in a different equipment with a lower rate of pay will incur a thirtysix
(36) month freeze.
so, assuming the guy i mentioned isn't typo, i don't see why there would be a 36 month freeze...he didn't go to equip with a lower rate of pay (not possible), and i don't think it's possible to go to different equip with the same rate of pay...
actually, i guess going from 1st yr 50 seat fo to 1st yr 70 seat fo is the same rate of pay, but i'm pretty sure he was not the only one to do that...
jetflyer...this should answer your question:
c. At the conclusion of such pilot’s twelve (12) month freeze, he may be
awarded any vacancy to which his seniority entitles him.
(1) If awarded a position with a rate of pay equal to or higher than the
position from which he was junior assigned, the pilot will not be subject
to a freeze.
(2) If awarded a position with a rate of pay lower than the position from
which he was junior assigned, the pilot will incur a thirty-six (36) month
freeze.
looks like a 36-month freeze in your situation...is that how you read it?
5. Except as otherwise provided in paragraph O.11., below, a pilot awarded the
same status in a different equipment with the same rate of pay will incur a thirtysix
(36) month freeze.
6. Except as otherwise provided in paragraph O.11., below, a pilot awarded the
same status in a different equipment with a lower rate of pay will incur a thirtysix
(36) month freeze.
so, assuming the guy i mentioned isn't typo, i don't see why there would be a 36 month freeze...he didn't go to equip with a lower rate of pay (not possible), and i don't think it's possible to go to different equip with the same rate of pay...
actually, i guess going from 1st yr 50 seat fo to 1st yr 70 seat fo is the same rate of pay, but i'm pretty sure he was not the only one to do that...
jetflyer...this should answer your question:
c. At the conclusion of such pilot’s twelve (12) month freeze, he may be
awarded any vacancy to which his seniority entitles him.
(1) If awarded a position with a rate of pay equal to or higher than the
position from which he was junior assigned, the pilot will not be subject
to a freeze.
(2) If awarded a position with a rate of pay lower than the position from
which he was junior assigned, the pilot will incur a thirty-six (36) month
freeze.
looks like a 36-month freeze in your situation...is that how you read it?
Last edited:
jetflyer
Concerned Citizen
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2002
- Posts
- 2,040
Well Anaconda,
DANG!! Yea thanks for pointing that out in the contract. I just read the freezes section. Bummer. I wanted to go to Dallas when the base opened down there.
Establishment planning said to us on my first day that Dallas would only be a 40-50 seater base to start. So looks like if I want to go there after my 1 year freeze, I'll be an FO there in the 50 for 3 more years!! That stinks. Well looks like unless the 70s go to Dallas after a while, I'll be a 70 seat FO in CVG until I become captain!
As a matter of fact looks like all of us that are JMed will have almost no choice but to stay on the 70 till we become captain in the 50, otherwise the earliest we can become captain is 4 years after we start in the 70. WOW.
I hope the senior captains aren't as miserable to fly with as everyone keeps saying!!
Jet
DANG!! Yea thanks for pointing that out in the contract. I just read the freezes section. Bummer. I wanted to go to Dallas when the base opened down there.
Establishment planning said to us on my first day that Dallas would only be a 40-50 seater base to start. So looks like if I want to go there after my 1 year freeze, I'll be an FO there in the 50 for 3 more years!! That stinks. Well looks like unless the 70s go to Dallas after a while, I'll be a 70 seat FO in CVG until I become captain!
As a matter of fact looks like all of us that are JMed will have almost no choice but to stay on the 70 till we become captain in the 50, otherwise the earliest we can become captain is 4 years after we start in the 70. WOW.
I hope the senior captains aren't as miserable to fly with as everyone keeps saying!!
Jet
Anaconda
FLY ARMY!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 594
gregory...i'm not aware of anywhere to download the profiles...
having just completed the crj initial course, i can honestly say that not having any material ahead of time is probably not a huge deal. while i can understand your desire to get ahead, the tng department is excellent at comair and they will provide you with all of the materials you need to succeed in this course. they have great materials to cover the flows and they provide ample instruction in that area as well as others.
positive rate, jetflyer, or skiddriver, any other thoughts on the subject?
having just completed the crj initial course, i can honestly say that not having any material ahead of time is probably not a huge deal. while i can understand your desire to get ahead, the tng department is excellent at comair and they will provide you with all of the materials you need to succeed in this course. they have great materials to cover the flows and they provide ample instruction in that area as well as others.
positive rate, jetflyer, or skiddriver, any other thoughts on the subject?
Last edited:
jetflyer
Concerned Citizen
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2002
- Posts
- 2,040
Well I did study some before I went and I found I was ahead of everyone it seemed like the entire time because of it.
I studied flash cards from:
www.atozinaz.com/crj
They have flash cards covering the systems, limitations, and memory items.
Because I studied them I was familiar with every memory item before I went there, and familiar with every limitation.
I think knowing those allowed me to study my flows, setups for approaches, standard calls and maneuvers more when it came time for those instead of studying for the systems test and memory items test so much. I had no previous airline experience so I needed to spend more time on all the calls and flows I think than others.
I do agree with Anaconda though, that if you go there and just study hard you don't need to study anything. It's not a complete cake walk though, so take it seriously.
Just go in there with a positive attitude and you'll all do fine,
Jet
I studied flash cards from:
www.atozinaz.com/crj
They have flash cards covering the systems, limitations, and memory items.
Because I studied them I was familiar with every memory item before I went there, and familiar with every limitation.
I think knowing those allowed me to study my flows, setups for approaches, standard calls and maneuvers more when it came time for those instead of studying for the systems test and memory items test so much. I had no previous airline experience so I needed to spend more time on all the calls and flows I think than others.
I do agree with Anaconda though, that if you go there and just study hard you don't need to study anything. It's not a complete cake walk though, so take it seriously.
Just go in there with a positive attitude and you'll all do fine,
Jet
Anaconda
FLY ARMY!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 594
were there any differences between the memory items/limits on your flash cards and comair's data?
one other thing...know your flows and callouts before you get to FTD 1. i probably don't have to tell anyone that, but my sim partner was recycled for that very reason. makes the sim tng so much more easier...
one more thing...there is a gouge sheet available with limit's/e.p.'s. unfortunately i don't have it on computer or with me now, but you may be able to get it from the indoc instructors if nothing else when you get there...
one other thing...know your flows and callouts before you get to FTD 1. i probably don't have to tell anyone that, but my sim partner was recycled for that very reason. makes the sim tng so much more easier...
one more thing...there is a gouge sheet available with limit's/e.p.'s. unfortunately i don't have it on computer or with me now, but you may be able to get it from the indoc instructors if nothing else when you get there...
Last edited:
jetflyer
Concerned Citizen
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2002
- Posts
- 2,040
Anaconda,
The emergency procedures and limits were identical. Except they only covered the 3B-1 engine. As you know there's only like one or two differences, but you have to know the 3b-1 stuff for the tests anyway.
I totally agree with Anaconda on knowing your sim profiles and FLOWS before the FTDs. My partner actually failed the checkride, but passed the retest, I feel because he was so behind in knowing those.
He had only barely glanced at the Flows and profiles because the FTD 1 is like 5 days after you take your EMERGENCY PROCEDURES AND LIMITATIONS test, which you have to make a 100 on. It's not easy either, a lot to memorize.
Good luck to everyone, just got called for a trip,
See ya,
Jet
The emergency procedures and limits were identical. Except they only covered the 3B-1 engine. As you know there's only like one or two differences, but you have to know the 3b-1 stuff for the tests anyway.
I totally agree with Anaconda on knowing your sim profiles and FLOWS before the FTDs. My partner actually failed the checkride, but passed the retest, I feel because he was so behind in knowing those.
He had only barely glanced at the Flows and profiles because the FTD 1 is like 5 days after you take your EMERGENCY PROCEDURES AND LIMITATIONS test, which you have to make a 100 on. It's not easy either, a lot to memorize.
Good luck to everyone, just got called for a trip,
See ya,
Jet
PositiveRate
Refugee
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2002
- Posts
- 728
I would recommend against studying anything in advance unless it's actually photocopied out of the FSMs. Primacy rules during training and if you study the wrong stuff...well, you'll be worse off. If you absolutely need to study something, get that study guide from Chip Wright... [email protected] (i think?) and start reading over the ops specs and weather sections. I did that and I felt ahead of the game during indoc.
Comair's training is phenominal. If you dedicate yourself and study like you really want to be here, you will have no problems. I know it's hard, but relax and enjoy your downtime because you'll be studying your butt off once you get here.
Just my 2 cents...
Comair's training is phenominal. If you dedicate yourself and study like you really want to be here, you will have no problems. I know it's hard, but relax and enjoy your downtime because you'll be studying your butt off once you get here.
Just my 2 cents...
Anaconda
FLY ARMY!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 594
you will commonly hear the phrase "firehose" when talking about airline tng. among army types, i often hear this being described as going through the IE course and the AQC at the same time!
that being said, i honestly didn't think it was that bad. true, at times it can seem like a ton of info in a short period of time, but truthfully it isn't if you break it down. it is a very long course and i think ample opportunity is given to learn everything. one of the keys is time mgt, a trait you know we learned in the army. as i and others have said, you can't wait until the last minute to study any particular topic. e.g., don't wait until two days before the e.p./limits test to start studying for it...
to put it in army terms...AQC level but you should already have an IE level of instrument flying before you get here...
also, this tng is not the "build an airplane" type of tng, a philosphy i felt the army had and many old-school types have. if you simply focus on what the instructors teach you that is really all you need to know for this phase of tng.
in case you didn't get the answer to your crashpad question, there were several advertised at the tng center, and a few more in the breakroom at the sim bldg that you might also want to check out.
are you still in the 14 oct class?
that being said, i honestly didn't think it was that bad. true, at times it can seem like a ton of info in a short period of time, but truthfully it isn't if you break it down. it is a very long course and i think ample opportunity is given to learn everything. one of the keys is time mgt, a trait you know we learned in the army. as i and others have said, you can't wait until the last minute to study any particular topic. e.g., don't wait until two days before the e.p./limits test to start studying for it...
to put it in army terms...AQC level but you should already have an IE level of instrument flying before you get here...
also, this tng is not the "build an airplane" type of tng, a philosphy i felt the army had and many old-school types have. if you simply focus on what the instructors teach you that is really all you need to know for this phase of tng.
in case you didn't get the answer to your crashpad question, there were several advertised at the tng center, and a few more in the breakroom at the sim bldg that you might also want to check out.
are you still in the 14 oct class?
3 year freeze
Update on the 3-year freeze:
Anaconda, I think its the next page in the contract after the one you quoted which talks about a freeze after being jr. manned. I don't have the contract with me, but if I remember correctly it says something like:
There is a 3-year freeze if a pilot bids back to a position with a lower pay FROM which he was jr. manned. This being the case, I/we were jr. manned FROM the 50 seater, and we would want to bid back to that. Since we were jr. manned out of the 50 seater and we want to go back to the 50 seater, it is the same pay, i.e. not a step down in pay, hence no three year freeze. I know this sounds confusing, and this part of the contract will probably be interpreted a few different ways before the final decision is made, but thats what we've come up with now. If anyone has immediate access to the contract, I'd appreciate a quoted post. I think it was under the "Jr. Manning" section.
Update on the 3-year freeze:
Anaconda, I think its the next page in the contract after the one you quoted which talks about a freeze after being jr. manned. I don't have the contract with me, but if I remember correctly it says something like:
There is a 3-year freeze if a pilot bids back to a position with a lower pay FROM which he was jr. manned. This being the case, I/we were jr. manned FROM the 50 seater, and we would want to bid back to that. Since we were jr. manned out of the 50 seater and we want to go back to the 50 seater, it is the same pay, i.e. not a step down in pay, hence no three year freeze. I know this sounds confusing, and this part of the contract will probably be interpreted a few different ways before the final decision is made, but thats what we've come up with now. If anyone has immediate access to the contract, I'd appreciate a quoted post. I think it was under the "Jr. Manning" section.
I have friends who interviewed first week in May and are being called as alternates. I also received an e-mail from AIR, Inc saying that Comair will be scheduling interviews at the DCA job fair.
For those of us in the pool - I see these as great signs. I think the pool is clearing out a lot faster than they expected - nothing official, just a gut feeling.
Hope to see you all in class soon.
For those of us in the pool - I see these as great signs. I think the pool is clearing out a lot faster than they expected - nothing official, just a gut feeling.
Hope to see you all in class soon.
Rich Man
OOOH, SHINY!!!!
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2002
- Posts
- 73
Congrats!
Confratulations to the poolies that got classes on the 14th and 21st!!
Those of you that started on the 14th, any news? anything to share? I hope you have internet access in CVG, so you can keep the information flow... well flowing
How about anybody else? anybody in the pool got a call for the 28th? or maybe even November?
PositiveRate, Hows life in the Sim, are your sim sessions also @ 5am?
Well everybody take care and have fun!!
Rich!
Confratulations to the poolies that got classes on the 14th and 21st!!
Those of you that started on the 14th, any news? anything to share? I hope you have internet access in CVG, so you can keep the information flow... well flowing
How about anybody else? anybody in the pool got a call for the 28th? or maybe even November?
PositiveRate, Hows life in the Sim, are your sim sessions also @ 5am?
Well everybody take care and have fun!!
Rich!
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
