Comair to XJ...

[Metro752]

How hard would it have been for ALPA at Mesaba to say to managment.

We will take all the furloughed Comair pilots before anyone else? Why shouldn't they, is my question. Why didn't they?

Where is Rez O Gheyshun


edit: ( I am not a comair pilot, just someone looking inside)

 

[DX Rick]

How hard would it have been for ALPA at Mesaba to say to managment.

We will take all the furloughed Comair pilots before anyone else? Why shouldn't they, is my question. Why didn't they?

Where is Rez O Gheyshun

Because ALPA doesn't hire pilots.
Doesn't seem like there is much ALPA does do.
The only thing they claim is that "The company signs the pay check, ALPA fills out the ammount!"

 

[CopilotDoug]

"The company signs the pay check, ALPA fills out the ammount!"

Has it been brought to ALPA's attention that they left a few zeroes out?

 

[xjhawk]

get a clue

The absolute worst thing possible- chase growth, from one regional to another. Just look at the folks that left ASA to go to SkyWest. Look how many times we thought ASA was in the crapper a year and a half ago- it's been on the ups and downs since I got here nearly five years ago.

You can't play chess with this stuff, and you certainly can't outguess the system. Things change so fast, so often, it's impossible. Just ride it out.

On another note- I'm deeply disappointed in ALPA for standing by and watching this happen. They should be fighting a hell of a lot harder to prevent one ALPA carrier (Mesaba) from growing at anothers (Comair) expense. Especially given that the two are wholy owneds.

Thats been going on for years and guess what, ALPA can do nothing about it! Seriously man, ALPA is not as well organized as other NAtionally organized Unions. Just hope your MEC has good people who can do what they can to make your little world better. Now I also must say that do not blame Mesaba pilots for the "Whip Saw" that we all know so well. When every other regional was getting aircraft from their majors we were getting aircraft taken away. Not to mention the government forced pay cuts and other loses brought on by what should have been an illegal bankruptcy. I cannot wait to have all everyone making those of us at XJ the bad guys. If it were up to me, Alpa would be fighting the good fight. More on that later.

 

[cessnamann]

Because we need to weed out people with attitudes like yours. Why should we hire Comair guys with no interview? As a courtesy our ALPA has worked out preferential (read not guaranteed) interviews to extend an opportunity to fellow ALPA members.

Bottom line our company has always had high-standards, a great pilot group and safety record without equal, and would like to continue to do so. With no control, and being forced to hire everyone how do yo think that would work out? Every carrier has a few "tools" working for them, and you can usually pick them out of a crowd without much difficulty.

Too bad your airline's pay scale dosn't match up to your "high standards" and your safety record that has no equal as you say. I hope when your contract negotiations start you'll remember to bring that up. I'm sure the hundreds of furloghed comair pilots or ASA pilots who see the propect of a furlough just over the horizon who fought for years to get what they have love hearing you gloat how your airline with substandard pay is better than everyone else's airline. Who are the tools again?

 

[Regul8r]

Because we need to weed out people with attitudes like yours. Why should we hire Comair guys with no interview? As a courtesy our ALPA has worked out preferential (read not guaranteed) interviews to extend an opportunity to fellow ALPA members.

Bottom line our company has always had high-standards, a great pilot group and safety record without equal, and would like to continue to do so. With no control, and being forced to hire everyone how do yo think that would work out? Every carrier has a few "tools" working for them, and you can usually pick them out of a crowd without much difficulty.

As a courtesy, this is what ALPA has done? You are a Class "A" Power Tool.

And all that cute bull ******************** about great pilot group and high standards...you're at a sub-par regional you moron! You think it's great that you're floating kind of near the top in the septic tank that is the regionals. Go ******************** yourself sideways

:uzi: XJCaptain

 

[Metro752]

hey man, they have to stay competitive with that low pay


read: lower the bar

 

[snap145]

not to get off subject here. but i'm not even to sure why mr snap145 should even care. according to yours posts you are at pinnacle now, and from the looks of your previous posts you have been at tsa, chq, and maybe another regional or two in there (comair/psa?) do you just like stirring the pot and turning others against one another or have you decided its been a few months at pinnacle and time to move on again. just curious.

diablo...you sir are the king of duesche bags....I dont have to rectify to you where ive worked...this is my second regional (not that it matters or I give half a sh%t what you think..) not my fourth or fifth according to you....secondly I was simply asking if the furloughed Comair guys were accepting interviews at Mesaba, as according to one of my friends a few of them were given interviews....nice try though drag queen....so stick your head back down your sisters pants...

 

[big shacks]

All this pissing and moaning is a joke, don't blame XJ for any of this. You just happen to be the b_tch we were 2 years ago. Enjoy the ride!

 

[CptMurf]

Too bad your airline's pay scale dosn't match up to your "high standards" and your safety record that has no equal as you say.

Just did a little comparison on pay for you (based on APC payscales. XJ's reflect DOS +2 bump Dec 1st 2008)...
Comair
1st year $22
5 yr 700 CA $66
10 yr 700 CA $78
ASA
1st year $23
5 yr 700 CA $69
10 yr 700 CA $81
9E
1st year $21
5 yr 70 seat CA $69
10 yr 70 seat CA $81
XJ
1st year $24
5 yr 70 seat CA $71
10 yr 70 seat CA $82

I don't see how we are substandard here. Is it what we should make.... NO.... But below our peers, not really.

I hope when your contract negotiations start you'll remember to bring that up. I'm sure the hundreds of furloghed comair pilots or ASA pilots who see the propect of a furlough just over the horizon who fought for years to get what they have love hearing you gloat how your airline with substandard pay is better than everyone else's airline.

I hope you are not implying that XJ has not fought to improve/preserve our contract through our contract '04 or Concessionary contract '06 (which is currently snapping back to '04 rates). I was here for Comair's strike and we (XJ pilots) walked with them on their picket line then, we (XJ) were one of a select few airlines that let them jumpseat during the strike, and they (Comair) were walking with us during the contract and BK informational picketing. Comair helped many of our pilots with preferential hiring during our MULTIPLE furloughs between '01-'06. And guess what, not all were hired. We got no beef between us, union to union. If you have a problem, I think it is your own.

Who are the tools again?

I think one individual Comair 700 FO.

 

[CptMurf]

As a courtesy, this is what ALPA has done?

Alpa doesn't hire, nor can they really protect you until after probation.

Exactly what would you like them to do? They could offer an LOA to bring some senority. We have/had one with 9E before. You still have to meet hiring minimums and interview though. These are typically VERY protracted negotiations and at a cost to the current pilot group. I seriously doubt we could achieve this with EVERY airline out there though.

Be realistic. People are losing there jobs... it sucks. We as pilots have NO control over it. We have felt it at XJ before, I'm sure we will again. We are all in this together and XJ pilots will help where/when we can. But blaming us for what your/DAL management is doing is asinine.

Take care of your family, take care of your friends, look out for the guy/gal next to you, these are seriously tough economic times and we are all feeling the burden somehow. But don't get wrapped up in my airline is better that yours. It's all about timing in this industry.

Peace Out

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I'm guessing most of these guys are moaning about the FO payscales. Yes for 900 and even 200 fo's we are below average thanks to the "blended payscale" However the Saab fo's are well above industry average. Of course nobody wants to mention that... Personally I think the blended payscale is a lousy deal, but that boat sailed in 96 when I was still in college. Getting that removed was a priority in the 2004 contract until the screwjob whipsaw of buying Big Sky and threatening to give all the flying to them came along. Priorities shifted to scope being a bigger deal (and proved its worth during the scam bankruptcy). Also everyone forgets while Comair was voluntarily giving up pay in the hope of getting E170's (that ended up at Shuttle America anyway) Mesaba did NOT give ANYTHING up to get awarded the 20 CRJ-200s back in 2005. Granted thanks to the scam bankruptcy we never got 18 of those. Not to mention the pay cuts we took were forced because of a crooked judge and judicial system. We did keep almost everything in the work rules and got the snapback provisions on our pay (which are taking effect right now)
Remeber our pay + workrules (while still far from perfect) still would beat the crap off of Mesa Pay +$10 and their workrules.....

 

[Simon Says]

I am a Mesaba guy and have no beef what so ever with the Comair pilot group as a whole. During your strike I gladly sent in my check. I didn't walk with you guys because I wasn't in CVG, but I did walk with some Comair folks during our suedo strike. I was an FO at the time but the Captain I was with gladly accepted the Comair guy that wanted the jumpseat even though the company put out a memo saying that we were not allowed to have Comair sit in the jump during their strike. Every one of them was and is a good guy...and gal.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

nice try though drag queen....so stick your head back down your sisters pants...

Price of FI.......$10
time it takes to read this useless thread......3 minutes
Being told to stick your head back down your sisters pants.........Priceless!
Snap gets post of the year!:laugh:

 

[Farfugnügen]

Myself and many of my friends were hired at Mesaba after being recently furloughed from Comair. I know our MEC had a loosely set up preferential INTERVIEW agreement with the Mesaba MEC. I do not think it was preferential hiring, I know several Comair pilots that interviewed, but were not hired... and several that applied, but got rejected.

Despite some pre-disposed opinions floating around about Comair pilots, everyone I know that has been hired in the last few weeks are great folks and will make a great addition to the Mesaba team. Myself and all of them are very greatful toward Mesaba and their MEC for making this possible.

 

[xjcaptain]

Too bad your airline's pay scale dosn't match up to your "high standards" and your safety record that has no equal as you say. I hope when your contract negotiations start you'll remember to bring that up. I'm sure the hundreds of furloghed comair pilots or ASA pilots who see the propect of a furlough just over the horizon who fought for years to get what they have love hearing you gloat how your airline with substandard pay is better than everyone else's airline. Who are the tools again?

All I can say is that we have hired Comair pilots as well as pilots from many other airlines. The attitude that a person is owed a job because they worked for somebody else in the past is just B.S. As far as history and what one group has done to advance the industry vs another you might like to check comairs past. For those that have been flying for more than a few years, you will remember that Comair lead the way with pay for training for years and years. How much harm did that do to the industry? Some might remember that......unless you were in grade school then........or not even born. The industry has had these ups and downs forever, and XJ has been on both sides. When XJ was growing and Express was shrinking, we took on many of their pilots. When the tables were reversed, they did not return the favor. All our "growth" has returned us to about the number of pilots we were at 10 years ago. Who were you flying for 10 years ago?

 

[cessnamann]

All I can say is that we have hired Comair pilots as well as pilots from many other airlines. The attitude that a person is owed a job because they worked for somebody else in the past is just B.S. As far as history and what one group has done to advance the industry vs another you might like to check comairs past. For those that have been flying for more than a few years, you will remember that Comair lead the way with pay for training for years and years. How much harm did that do to the industry? Some might remember that......unless you were in grade school then........or not even born. The industry has had these ups and downs forever, and XJ has been on both sides. When XJ was growing and Express was shrinking, we took on many of their pilots. When the tables were reversed, they did not return the favor. All our "growth" has returned us to about the number of pilots we were at 10 years ago. Who were you flying for 10 years ago?

The Attitude that someone is owed a job is almost as bad as the attitude of "my airline is better than yours" or "our safety record has no equal." By the way, I was in grade school back then and I still have all my hair, I am not overweight, and look damn good.

 

[Speedtape]

Right here is a growing problem of ALPA cheerleaders. We hear people saying "ALPA should get involved" for what ever reason.
But then you have ALPA chest thumpers sit there say "Well, ALPA can't help us on that".....Then WTF are we paying our dues towards?

ALPA can solve all problems. I heard Prater manadated that gas prices should be $1.38 instead of $3.88, and within a month--it was so!

ALPA is worth my dues money.

 

[Speedtape]

All I can say is that we have hired Comair pilots as well as pilots from many other airlines. The attitude that a person is owed a job because they worked for somebody else in the past is just B.S. As far as history and what one group has done to advance the industry vs another you might like to check comairs past. For those that have been flying for more than a few years, you will remember that Comair lead the way with pay for training for years and years. How much harm did that do to the industry? Some might remember that......unless you were in grade school then........or not even born. The industry has had these ups and downs forever, and XJ has been on both sides. When XJ was growing and Express was shrinking, we took on many of their pilots. When the tables were reversed, they did not return the favor. All our "growth" has returned us to about the number of pilots we were at 10 years ago. Who were you flying for 10 years ago?

You still work for a company that is about 1 rung up from the other "M" airline--get over yourself!

 

[xjcaptain]

You still work for a company that is about 1 rung up from the other "M" airline--get over yourself!

Do you have a point, or are you just being confused by the facts? Good work rules, comparable pay, long history in the industry. Periods of growth and furloughs. Contract negotiations and bankruptcy. Ups and downs like nearly every airline over time. For some I think it's the first downturn in the industry that they have seen. Talk to some of those pilots that might not be as pretty as Cessnaman, and maybe a little less hair. You guys might learn something from history. Then again maybe not.

I'm trying to figure out how XJ is the bad guy? Is it because we have not hired everybody that has applied?

As far as how you feel XJ ranks in the big picture, I couldn't care less. Don't come here if you don't like it. I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

 

[Speedtape]

Do you have a point, or are you just being confused by the facts? Good work rules, comparable pay, long history in the industry. Periods of growth and furloughs. Contract negotiations and bankruptcy. Ups and downs like nearly every airline over time. For some I think it's the first downturn in the industry that they have seen. Talk to some of those pilots that might not be as pretty as Cessnaman, and maybe a little less hair. You guys might learn something from history. Then again maybe not.

I'm trying to figure out how XJ is the bad guy? Is it because we have not hired everybody that has applied?

As far as how you feel XJ ranks in the big picture, I couldn't care less. Don't come here if you don't like it. I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

I repeat:
You still work for a company that is about 1 rung up from the other "M" airline--get over yourself!

 

[CptMurf]

I repeat:
You still work for a company that is about 1 rung up from the other "M" airline--get over yourself!

Checking some of your past posts, it seems you are "king of the one-liners". Do you actually have a point, or do you just like interjecting, "My airline is better than yours."

ASA is a good company (I have many friends there), and you are and have been feeling the crunch of the industry for a couple of years, but you obviously know nothing of Mesaba, it's people, or it's history. The fact that we are growing, while others are shrinking, is due to the fact that we already felt your pain. And I don't remember any XJ guys crying how ASA or any other airlines, were scumsucking bottom feeders of the industry. Get over yourself, learn some history, and if you respond...Please actually give us some content and not another oneliner.

 

[johnboy99]

I repeat:
You still work for a company that is about 1 rung up from the other "M" airline--get over yourself!

I don't have a dog in this fight but I used to ride your beloved ASA not that long ago CHA-ATL. From my experiences I would take either of the "M" airlines than the service I saw from ASA. I heard your service has improved but remember you used to be the laughing stock of Delta Connection before that "M" airline came along.

 

[CopilotDoug]

How hard would it have been for ALPA at Mesaba to say to managment.

We will take all the furloughed Comair pilots before anyone else? Why shouldn't they, is my question. Why didn't they?

Where is Rez O Gheyshun


edit: ( I am not a comair pilot, just someone looking inside)

Metro, when my small, government funded airline went out of business...our pilots were given preferential hiring at Regional XYZ. Not everybody chose to interview with XYZ...but as I recall, those of our pilots who did interview were hired (Which was nice of Regional XYZ)

And we did that without ALPA.

Now, back to your question: I think it's a good one. One would think ALPA wouldn't have a tough time putting a case together for its dues paying members.
Aren't they going to be interviewed by other pilots?

 

[Speedtape]

Checking some of your past posts, it seems you are "king of the one-liners". Do you actually have a point, or do you just like interjecting, "My airline is better than yours."

ASA is a good company (I have many friends there), and you are and have been feeling the crunch of the industry for a couple of years, but you obviously know nothing of Mesaba, it's people, or it's history. The fact that we are growing, while others are shrinking, is due to the fact that we already felt your pain. And I don't remember any XJ guys crying how ASA or any other airlines, were scumsucking bottom feeders of the industry. Get over yourself, learn some history, and if you respond...Please actually give us some content and not another oneliner.

I repeat (AGAIN):
You still work for a company that is about 1 rung up from the other "M" airline--get over yourself!

Don't take it personal! It doesn't matter which airline we are talking about at this level, mine or yours, or what the first letter of the airline is, all things considered, they are all about the same--just some worse than others! The comment made did not purport that "my airline is better than yours."

The reason for my "one liner" as you categorized it, is your pious and self-rightous statement regarding Comair pilots. First, the ones that need jobs now only worked there for about a year. I am sure they have no loyalty to any airline--they just want a job.

Your growth is not attributed to who your company is , your history, or the people. Opining that position, sounds like self-entitlement. You are getting the growth because your cost structure is one rung above the other "M" airline. With knowledge of your history and your company, I realize that's not your fault. However, if not already, very soon, the criteria for your snapback provisions will be met. A defining moment will be whether your pilot group enforces those provisions.

 

[Speedtape]

Metro, when my small, government funded airline went out of business...our pilots were given preferential hiring at Regional XYZ. Not everybody chose to interview with XYZ...but as I recall, those of our pilots who did interview were hired (Which was nice of Regional XYZ)

And we did that without ALPA. Kudos! Maybe those pilots were qualified and met the hiring requirments. That certainly would have benefitted Regional XYZ.

Now, back to your question: I think it's a good one. One would think ALPA wouldn't have a tough time putting a case together for its dues paying members.
Aren't they going to be interviewed by other pilots?

Is the government responsible for a chicken in every pot?

 

[Willy21]

Is the government responsible for a chicken in every pot?

Come on Speed, another one-liner.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Is the government responsible for a chicken in every pot?

Before the cheerleaders start thumping their chest and waving this "accomplishment" in everyone's face...I just wanted to show that a group of non-union pilots was able to accomplish the same thing

 

[CptMurf]

The reason for my "one liner" as you categorized it, is your pious and self-rightous statement regarding Comair pilots. First, the ones that need jobs now only worked there for about a year. I am sure they have no loyalty to any airline--they just want a job.

Your growth is not attributed to who your company is , your history, or the people. Opining that position, sounds like self-entitlement. You are getting the growth because your cost structure is one rung above the other "M" airline. With knowledge of your history and your company, I realize that's not your fault. However, if not already, very soon, the criteria for your snapback provisions will be met. A defining moment will be whether your pilot group enforces those provisions.

I am assuming you are talking about XJCaptains post and directing your replies towards me. So I'll keep my self-rightous replies to myself and leave that alone. Our snapback provisions have not only been met, but the first of them has already occured. These are not reflected on the APC payscales yet, which I already posted a comparison earlier in this thread.

Don't worry about our pilot groups willingness to stand and fight. We have already proven that. We will continue fighting with our own mgmt. and will help as much as we can with the rest of the NWA/DAL/DCI carriers. We maybe cheaper right now because of our sham bankrupcy and government forced concessionary contract, but don't think we are willing to undercut others to gain flying. Save yor agression for your mgmt and don't drink their kool-aid.

 

[xjgearbtch]

DX you're a dick, go spout your racism somewhere else.