Comair to furlough 500??!!

[surplus1]

Thanks for answering my questions. Leaving your spin on the approach aside, as you have confirmed the CMR MEC did in fact refuse to help furloughed pilots and did in fact support managements position requiring that DAL pilots resign their seniority number. It's good to see that it only took the CMR pilots 3 years to change their position.

Leaving your spin on the side that isn't what I said. What is said was the CMR MEC did not chose to prove selective preference for Delta pilots over the pilot of other airlines. We in fact hired many furloughed pilots from a wide variety of ALPA carriers. Yours was the ONLY group that found itself too good to accept Comair management policy. That's your problem and you're not going to get away with trying to make it our problem.

You mentioned "Falling on your sword" to support the hiring of furloughed pilots and give them preferrential treatment.

Another attempt at spin but it won't work. What I said was this:

The CMR MEC simply did not agree to fall on its sword in an effort to change a company policy for the exclusive benefit of Delta pilots.

Note the phrase "for the exclusive benefit of Delta pilots" and don't exclude it in an effort to cloud the issue. The CMR MEC did support preferential interviews for all furloughed ALPA pilots. What it did NOT support was different and special preference for Delta pilots, that would put you ahead of other furloughed ALPA pilots. That is what you wanted, that is what your MEC Chairman tried to bribe us to give you, and that is what you did not get.

Funny how the ASA pilots didn't need to "fall on their sword." In 2004 when the CMR MEC flip flopped on preferential hiring of furloughed pilots, did they have to "fall on their sword"? I thought not, so drop the fig leaf of "falling on your sword".

ASA management unilaterally initiated the preferential employment of furloughed pilots. The ASA pilots did nothing at all to make that happen. All that they did was not object to a management policy, which was never the same as CMR management policy anyway.

Now too your question, why should an ALPA pilot group support the preferrential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots? Well, for starters the ALPA Administrative Manual encourages it. The fact that you even have to ask the question speaks volumes.

That was not the question that I asked. Read the question again, then either answer it or forget it. Don' change the question so that you can come up with an answer that fits in to your spin program.

Tell me why DL pilots felt that they were intitled to better treatment than given to furloughed pilots from other air lines. I'll ask again: Why did you feel that you were entitled to preferential treatment compared, say, to a furloughed USAirways pilot? What made you different in your own mind? Why did Delta pilots feel they should get more from Comair than other pilots?

You won't answer the question because it embarrases you when your idea that your were more special than others is revealed.

No one on the Delta property ever treated anyone on the Comair property as special in comparison to any other pilot group. In fact you did the exact opposite. Why then did you expect us to do more for you than you ever did for us?

Look, I'm not asking you to love CMR pilots for I already know you hate our guts. That didn't result from any policy related to furloughed pilots, it existed long before and YOU know that. Tell it like it is and stop trying to put out false information and sugar cote your own position.

You offered a bribe in exchange for special treatment an we tured you down.
It's that simple.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,

We were owned by the same people. We fed each other traffic. We offered you preferential hiring in '99-----and that was told to me by your ex System Chief pilot who went over to Delta Express in 99 (I gave him a jump seat down to MCO from ATL). He told me you guys turned that down. We offered you preferential hiring even before 9-11. Then the DCI pilots jumped up and down when they thought they would get DOH from the ALPA merger policy. An ASA pilot told me (I was on his CRJ jumpseat from ATL to CLE at the time) that he would eventually retire on the 738 flying left seat to Central America. He said that. I am sure the Comair people believed the same for awhile. So, to answer your question---we were (are currently) owned by the same people, and we offered you preferential hiring before 9-11. You guys didn't seem to care about that when we started furloughing, and instead wanted more 70 seaters before you would bargin. The truth hurts. Did USAir offer that to you? But you treated their furloughs "the same". Why would ASA offer our pilots help, and your airline would not? Oh yeah, there was a "policy" that couldn't be broken (until 2004). What?????


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JI Gone OH]

No one on the Delta property ever treated anyone on the Comair property as special in comparison to any other pilot group. In fact you did the exact opposite. Why then did you expect us to do more for you than you ever did for us?

Look, I'm not asking you to love CMR pilots for I already know you hate our guts. That didn't result from any policy related to furloughed pilots, it existed long before and YOU know that. Tell it like it is and stop trying to put out false information and sugar cote your own position.

You offered a bribe in exchange for special treatment an we tured you down.
It's that simple.

And that just about sums it up. Well done, Sir.

 

[General Lee]

JI,

Are you sure about that? Your ex System chief pilot told me that DL offered you preferential hiring in 99 but you guys turned it down. Are you sure you know what you are saying? You are wrong there buddy, and so is Surplus.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Surplus, the CMR pilots were never asked to "fall on their sword" for Delta furloughed pilots. As a matter of fact when the CMR pilots flip flopped on supporting the requirement that furloughed ALPA pilots give up their recall rights in October 2004, no such "falling on your sword" was required. That's just spin on your part. It was simply petty small mindedness on the part of the CMR pilots to kick furloughed pilots when they are down. I can understand your desire for revisionist history.

12-06-2002, 16:00 #1
snowback
Registered User
DAL MEC meets Comair MEC
From a recent DALPA Code-a phone message

Item two. At its October meeting, the (Delta) MEC passed a resolution directing the MEC Chairman to meet with the Comair MEC to pursue a reciprocal preferential hiring policy for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair and for Comair pilots at Delta. This week, MEC Chairman Capt. Will Buergey met with the Comair MEC Chairman in Cincinnati to discuss this issue further. The Comair MEC Chairman stated that his MEC administration does not support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. ASA management, at the ASA MEC’s request, has already hired furloughed Delta pilots, who start at the bottom of the airline’s seniority list and retain their recall rights at Delta.

12-06-2002, 16:13 #2
ACE
Registered User


It's not going to happen. Comair management and the Comair pilot group do not want the Delta pilots to come over and work with us. The only way it could happen is if Delta management says too take the Delta pilots. The Comair pilots are ready to cause chaos if we are made to do this against our will. I do not want to see any Delta pilot furloughed, but for them to come to Comair is a conflict of interest. For all you Delta pilots, you guys can call me an ass all you want for saying this, but it is fact.

 

[JI Gone OH]

JI,

Are you sure about that? Your ex System chief pilot told me that DL offered you preferential hiring in 99 but you guys turned it down. Are you sure you know what you are saying? You are wrong there buddy, and so is Surplus.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yeah, and Grienstein said we weren't going to file for bankruptcy, either. A lot of people say a lot of things, and for some reason I thought that you would have figured that out a long, long time ago. Some of us learn at different rates than others, I guess. Someone sits on your jump seat and tells you something and all the sudden it's gospel, huh? What made it believable, his title? Even it were true (I wasn't on board the Titantic in '99, so maybe it was), the last 3 or 4 paragraphs from Surplus's post that I quoted pretty much sums up what I've seen from the day I got here in '01. Take care....

 

[JI Gone OH]

As a matter of fact when the CMR pilots flip flopped on supporting the requirement that furloughed ALPA pilots give up their recall rights in October 2004, no such "falling on your sword" was required. That's just spin on your part. It was simply petty small mindedness on the part of the CMR pilots to kick furloughed pilots when they are down. I can understand your desire for revisionist history.

Talk about spin... You're worse than a politician or a television network, my friend. I draw your attention to the use of the phrase CMR pilots in your post. You should be ashamed of your attempt to insinuate that I or any other CMR pilot played any role in the decision whether or not we brought your furloughed guys on our property; in fact as a group we encouraged it. And to suggest that I would take an opportunity to kick any of your furloughed guys when they are down, deserves a swift kick in the balls, but I have more class than that and will refrain from the 4 letter words and name calling. It was a p*ssing match between the M.E.C.'s and more importantly between Buergey and Lawson, and you KNOW it. I've been furloughed before, and can appreciate your frustration, but I resent you and others like you for comments like that and for spreading such incorrect, innaccurate, and misleading information. Shame on you!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Surplus:

The Delta MEC came to the ASA MEC on the hiring issue and I think we may have even passed a resolution supporting the measure. I remember talk about it at an LEC meeting and everyone was enthusiastic about bringing the Delta guys over, as long as they did not take our seniority. I was there.

Not that I'm critical of what the Comair MEC, and Lawson, tried to do. He tried to negotiate a mutually beneficial agreement ( which was fair in my opinion ). Buergey made it clear that he was not there to negotiate and that he would blackmale the Comair MEC if they dared not to go along with his demand. The Delta MEC made good on their threat and we are still hearing the regurgitated BS today.

I hate to hear that the Comair guys may have to furlough. But, MEC's that engage in predatory bargaining do not have a real good track record at delivering the airplanes on the property.

~~~^~~/~ ( The / is the knife stuck in our back, do you want the "Comair Pilots support ASA pilots sticker? I would like to return it. I see red every time it falls out of my flight bag. )

 

[~~~^~~~]

Then the DCI pilots jumped up and down when they thought they would get DOH from the ALPA merger policy. An ASA pilot told me (I was on his CRJ jumpseat from ATL to CLE at the time) that he would eventually retire on the 738 flying left seat to Central America.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General:

A line pilot may have told you he hoped he would win the lottery - so what. The DOH bull is a tired lie. Give it a rest.

 

[~~~^~~~]

DAL MEC meets Comair MEC
From a recent DALPA Code-a phone message

Item two. At its October meeting, the (Delta) MEC passed a resolution directing the MEC Chairman to meet with the Comair MEC to pursue a reciprocal preferential hiring policy for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair and for Comair pilots at Delta. This week, MEC Chairman Capt. Will Buergey met with the Comair MEC Chairman in Cincinnati to discuss this issue further. The Comair MEC Chairman stated that his MEC administration does not support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. ASA management, at the ASA MEC’s request, has already hired furloughed Delta pilots, who start at the bottom of the airline’s seniority list and retain their recall rights at Delta.

FDJ2: Thanks for looking it up.