Comair Rumors

[PositiveRate]

Has anyone else heard the crewroom buzz that the company wants to reopen our PWA to negotiate either 1) concessions or 2) rates for the DoJet??

Supposedly there are 60+ potential deliveries for '04 and '05 for some DCI carrier (plus up to 30 DoJets if DAL terminates that agreement if/when ACA gets the narrowbodies).

Tune in next time for..."As the Beacon Turns"

 

[bvt1151]

For those of you (mgmt) who still doubt Comair is making money, I was speaking to an accountant from Deloitte & Touche yesterday (who audits Comair's books.) I mentioned how the pilots are not given the financial information of the company. He remarked that it was a bit strange that no reports were made, and that all info went to Atlanta. I asked the question of the day..."How much money is Comair making or losing?"

He replied, "Let's just say the numbers are black...very very black."

food for thought.

 

[Palerider957]

bvt:

Very interesting. If Comair is making a ton of $$, you can bet ASA is as well. We have just entered the phase of sheduling (a MAJOR bone here) and compensation for our new contract.

We've always made money, as I suspect Comair has. If mgmt. starts crying the $$ blues, it will really pi.ss off the pilot group as we will know they are lying to us.

 

[JJJ]

If your company is making even $1 the work concession should not even be in the vocabulary or mgmt.

It would be a slap in the face if mgmt came and said "With our ASA with mainline X we are guarateed X profit this year and each year remaining in the agreement..... but in order to reduce costs we need your guys to take a pay cut."

 

[Palerider957]

JJJ:

Agreed. Any contract that doesn't have something like Comair +1%, and some MAJOR overhauls to scheudling, I won't vote for it. I think many other pilots feel the same way.

 

[captainv]

Comair rumors

By chance I had a member of the Comair MEC in the jumpseat last night, so i had a chance to get the latest...

-Comair management wants $8 million per year from the pilot group, has not offered anything in return at this point. they also want a response by mid-november.

-the MEC is using a phone survey to poll the pilot group, so that they know where the pilots stand before entering into any kind of negotiations. caller ID will show a Maryland number.

-ALPA national is beginning to crunch the numbers to see if the $8 million figure given by management is valid.

also, the MEC says it's in no hurry to respond to management. when they have the financial data, and a good idea of what the pilot group wants, then they'll sit down and talk.

short story, the MEC isn't about to give up compensation for nothing. but they do want to know if the pilot group would agree to some sort of concession (if the financials bear it out) in return for other things. some of the things that i've heard from others that they'd be interested in: ASA/Comair merger that does all DCI flying, DCI gets anything with 70 seats or less, DAL gets everything bigger, etc.

so, call the MEC and tell them where you stand...

 

[General Lee]

Captainv,

That is very interesting. There must be something tied in there with Dalpa, because at this point Dalpa isn't budging over the 57 limit on 70 seaters. Maybe if Delta does order a lot of 100 seaters, and some deal is made with the return of the rest of the furloughs eventually, then I can see more 70 seaters floating your way. There would have to be a concrete order, though. You can't just blink and the thought of our furloughs on the street just goes away......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rptrain]

Re: Comair rumors

some of the things that i've heard from others that they'd be interested in: ASA/Comair merger that does all DCI flying....

seems like this is a pretty universal deisre amongst ASA/CMR and even some DAL folks now.

However, is this really possible at this point? Think how many DCI airplanes are operated (or will be) by Skywest, ACA, and CHQ. All are under multi-year agreements with varying durations left on them. I just can't see how management can ever make this happen, even if they wanted to.

At the last ALPA BOD the concept of "brand scope" was floated. Unfortunately, I think many have grabbed this idea and run the wrong way with it. Groups shouldn't be included/excluded based on their ownership, but rather if they meet certain "standards" in their labor contracts. This would still prevent the oursourcing of flying to cheaper labor.

CMR/ASA sometimes remind me of aristocracy. Simply because DAL bought those two airlines a few years ago they believe they now have an inalienable right to all DCI flying. Pilots at those companies had nothing to do with that decision, so is it fair to sanctimoniously exclude all other pilots based on something as arbitrary as ownership? You were insidious "contract carriers" once yourselves. The RJDC laments that the Delta MEC wants to negotiate to with management to the detriment of DCI. How is demanding that management take away flying from the "contract" carriers any different? Gee, thanks, brothers.

Keep the standards high for ALL codeshare partners and we'll all get our piece of the pie.

 

[Palerider957]

I can't imagine Delta EVER letting ASA/CMR merge--it would be a monster, a hydra, with a lot of power that DAL couldn't slap around so easily. Don't get me wrong, I would love a merger.

If CMR management is seriously looking for concessions, look out. That's going to hurt us all. If they force it down your throats, you need to make them pay dearly for it...IMHO.

 

[jtf]

Please do not give up anything without getting at least equal value in return. The majors won't ever be like they were so you better protect what you have and not settle for less than you have already fought for- especially when it seams pretty hard to believe Comair is losing money- unless there is some pretty creative book-keeping going on to make it look that way.

 

[sleepy]

The DAL pilots probably told management that they wanted Comair and ASA to take concession too. Management has to get concessions from us to get the mainline to go along. Note the timing of when they asked for the concessions, just after talks broke-down between mainline and management.

Look at the underfunded mainline pension (around a billion$). Management needs concessions from us, even though we are very profitable, to pay for those multi-million $$$$$$$$$$$44 mainline pensions. Don't give an inch, just think what another strike would do to DAL right now.

I would consider pay concessions only in exchange for an ASA/Comair merger, and all DCI flying for our combined list.

 

[bvt1151]

Comair is profitable. There is nobody outside mgmt that denies that. So why would mgmt approach us for concessions?

Enter Chautaqua. Apparently there have been meetings with Chautaqua pilots by Delta execs telling them that if Comair votes down concessions, they (CHQ) will get all Comair's growth. I don't know how true this is, but I do know I heard it from a CHQ pilot who was excited to get in my face and tell me Comair's days of leading the pack are over. Funny, yes; True, dunno; however it is very scary to me that another pilot flying under the same colors would be so proud of under-cutting another group.

 

[ACE]

The DAL pilots probably told management that they wanted Comair and ASA to take concession too. Management has to get concessions from us to get the mainline to go along. Note the timing of when they asked for the concessions, just after talks broke-down between mainline and management.

No probablies about it. You are right on with the timing.

I don't know how true this is, but I do know I heard it from a CHQ pilot who was excited to get in my face and tell me Comair's days of leading the pack are over.

I would not worry about some dumb a s s kids' wet dream.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

Very interesting comments:

"look at the underfunded mainline pension (around 1bllion$). Management needs concessions from us, even though we are very profitable, to pay for those multi-million $$$$$$$$$$$44 mainline pensions. Don't give an inch, just think what another strike would do to DAL right now."

Now wait one second. The pension shortfall is a factor of the stock market and current stock price. As the stock rises (which it has--50% since May)--the smaller the shortfall. The economy is getting better and the stock will continue to SLOWLY rise--erasing your argument.

Also, your huge profits will start to shrink when Jetblue starts flying EMB-190s (100 seaters) on your point to point routes from NYC etc. When they start charging $59 one way to Savanah from JFK, there is NO WAY a 50 seat RJ can compete. Soon Delta will have to get 100 seaters of their own to spread out the cost, and your 50 seaters will find there way back to hub flying---lots of Madison to CVG stuff. The 100 seaters will help the company then, which will be our flying.(Read the propganda from Micheal Boyd---for more) Mainline flying also did well this Summer, and Song just carried it's 1 millionth customer after 5 months---so Comair and ASA--even though they do help with the bottom line--are not carrying the rest of the company on their backs anymore.

Also, we are still willing to negotiate with the company and probably will be doing so soon---so pay cuts will come to us again probably soon. But, everyone needs to share in the resonsibility---not just one group. If you have to take some cuts, I doubt they would be even close to ours---and that is fine. But, everyone should have to sacrifice---not just us----that's called a "family."

I love you all.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Medeco]

Pay cuts

General,

How much of a cut should the first yr ASA pilot making $19.02/hr take? Less than 18k a yr ! The 15yr ASA pilot on the CR7 doesnt even make a fair wage for that matter.

I generally think your statements are pretty informed on the DAL situation, but this one gets me going everytime you say it.

Do you know that we make less than your flight attendants and ours?.

Concessions company wide at Delta mainline is fair, but not ASA and Comair.

Actually, I thinks it is interesting that DAL is the only major to begin recalling yet the pilot group has not givin into concessions, and they remain the highest paid pilot group out there, yet DAL has not gone chapter 11.

Maybe DAL is just trying to see how many suckers it employes, to get every bit they can.

Medeco

 

[FlyComAirJets]

If the pilots take pay cuts at Comair, then we should stipulate that no other part of the company eg flight attendants, mechanics, ramp workers, or customer service agents, should take a pay cut ... except management!

 

[Skull-One]

You must remember that DAL remembers quite well the 89-day CVG Ghost Town. They aren't going to allow such a thing to happen again. Any thought of an ASA/CMR DCI monopoly/oligopoly is a pipe dream. It will never happen. DAL's goal is to make each DCI carrier an expendible and easily replaced cog.

CMR pilots are looking at this the wrong way if you ask me. Instead of demanding that all DCI carriers go away in exchange for concessions, CMR should go to MGT and say, "Hey, you know what? We're profitable. CHQ just got a nine percent raise and they have more days off and no junior manning. We want one of the three."

Say what you want about the CHQ TA, but it will close the gap between us and CMR. That can work in CMR's favor if they choose to exploit it.

 

[rjcap]

No concessions, no pay cuts.

If Delta wants to farm out more flying to CHQ then go ahead and let them. They can also bring in MESA and let those guys fly the routes. If the industry is going to nose dive and make $18,000/yr first officers take pay cuts then its time to go.

You will never be able to protect your flying in this company. Management will do as they see fit and continue to play off one group against another. Control of who does the flying is just an illusion. There will always be a circumstance where that control is lost.

Don't forget that the problem is the mainline pilots compensation package and not DCI.

If DCI suffers another work disruption like the Comair strike it will merely supply Leo the reason to file Chapter 11 which would really solve his problems with mainline. The pilots at ASA would be more than happy to supply that work disruption if we are approached with a concessionary contract.

There are so many problems with this airline, ASA, that dissolving it completely would be a viable solution.

 

[asacap]

rjcap,

I agree 100%. I would rather scoop ice cream than take a pay cut. I say screw them. Let the company go out of business.. Lets not follow skywest down the hill. Lets be different and stand up for what is right. NO to consessions. Not a single penny.

 

[sleepy]

So General, Are you admitting that the DAL MEC is behind the request for concessions at Comair?