Comair Pilots - can you tell us....

[Ad Lib]

Can any Comair pilots tell us:

1. What economic data was provided to you for consideration in ratifying you concessions?
2. What analysis of this data was provided you by ALPA?
3. Some of you have written that management has now endorsed the viability of Comair's contract & cost structure at ASA. How did you reach this conclusion?
4. If cost savings was an issue, was a merger and consolidation of redundancies a consideration?
5. Any prognostications for the future?
6. Do you think that management will return for more concessions?
7. What do you expect the changes will be now that unity between the Comair and ASA pilots has been lost?

If you don't already know - just Ad Lib

 

[Nindiri]

Why are so many brand new user names popping up in the last few days just to bash somebody?

 

[Ad Lib]

Bashing?

Then defend yourself and we will have a debate.

 

[Nindiri]

Well, it's hard to debate if you're going to keep changing your post.

 

[9rj9]

bunch of dorks

dork, dork, dork. go to frigin work, find yourself a girlfriend, and shut it.

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

dork, dork, dork. go to frigin work, find yourself a girlfriend, and shut it.

I second that.

 

[Ad Lib]

Guys, I've got the girlfriend and the job. What I don't have is any idea why Comair pilots can not give any objective reasons for ratifying their concessions.

Is this the best you can do?

 

[Nindiri]

Since when do Comair pilots, or any other pilots for that matter, owe you an explanation for their personal decisions?

 

[Angus]

Guys, I've got the girlfriend and the job. What I don't have is any idea why Comair pilots can not give any objective reasons for ratifying their concessions.

Is this the best you can do?

Waiting tables at Red Lobster and knowing one of the waitresses IS NOT the same as "having a girlfriend and a job".

The same question should be asked of you "Is that the best YOU can do?"

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Nindiri,

Is the NA265 a Nord?

 

[OPECJet]

NA265 is the Sabreliner.

 

[dash8driver64]

sounds like some fair questions to me! Some honest answers would be nice.

 

[Nindiri]

Yeah, the Sabreliner 40 in my case. North American Rockwell. Great airplane even though the avionics were ancient.

 

[Angus]

sounds like some fair questions to me! Some honest answers would be nice.

Thats the point. They're NOT "fair" or 'honest" questions. These "questions" are points that he is trying to make. An "honest" question is asked when you are seeking to find information to make an opinion. This dillweed has already formed an opinion and is looking for an argument because he didn't like the answers for the questions he's "asking".

If this dillweed had any real b*lls, he would have just came out and stated what he thinks... rather than hide behind his "Matlock' line of questioning.

 

[viper01]

Yeah, they don't owe you any explanation for their decision when they have their heads in the ground, but for 3 1/2 years they were bashing other pilot groups for not having that top notch contract they worked so hard to gain. Shoes on the other foot, now they have nothing to say about it. Shame

 

[Broke in CVG]

Can any Comair pilots tell us:

1. What economic data was provided to you for consideration in ratifying you concessions?
2. What analysis of this data was provided you by ALPA?
3. Some of you have written that management has now endorsed the viability of Comair's contract & cost structure at ASA. How did you reach this conclusion?
4. If cost savings was an issue, was a merger and consolidation of redundancies a consideration?
5. Any prognostications for the future?
6. Do you think that management will return for more concessions?
7. What do you expect the changes will be now that unity between the Comair and ASA pilots has been lost?

If you don't already know - just Ad Lib

1. No financial data was ever shared with the pilot group. The MEC said that they saw some financial info, but due to a non-disclosure agreement they couldn't comment.

2. To the pilot group... none. To the MEC, I don't know the answer because they wouldn't share that. My guess, probably none. I think the company said here it is and the MEC said "OK, that looks about right."

3. They (managment) have said any such thing.

4. Buttrel and Girnstein have said that a merger isn't even a consideration. They have said that it was looked at, studied and the cost of merger outweighed the synergies of the combined company. They said whipsaw was not taken into consderation, the basis was studied strickly on a cost/savings analysis.

5. Yea, we'll get 10 CRJ200s and 25 70 seaters. As well, 40% of the pilots are going to spend the next three or more years pissed off at the Chicken Littles.

6. No. My guess is that present managment won't be here long (FB) and that Comair will have a new owner(s). They got what they wanted... it really wasn't about the money (they lost more during the Christmas f*up). It was about polishing the turd. Whether for sale, to keep ASA down, or to make FB look good, or to make it look good to GE Cap. it was for appearances not bottom line.

7. 60% of us would screw over their mother if meant getting new planes. ASA will get a new contract and in a couple of years things will be back to normal. Or you can add ASA to the Delta pilots who hate us!

There are some honest answers for ya. How do you like them apples?

 

[Ad Lib]

Thank you for your candor.

Now that the deal is done, are the supporters still pleased, or is "buyer's remorse" starting to set in?

 

[Broke in CVG]

I don't think either.... nothing has happened and they didn't have any planes hidden in the hanger under sheets. And unlike the strike, people are admitting they voted yes. People had their own reasons for voting yes and only time will tell. Personally, as much as I want to get off of reserve (going on 2 years as a Capt) I didn't want the airline playing with my money. As the old song by Sonny Boy Williams goes.... "Get your hand the h*ll out of my pocket, I an't with you no more!"

After the strike 95% of the people I talked to said that they voted no, but only 36%, I believe, actually did.

This LOA sure takes all the fun out of calling the Mesa and CHQ guys whores!

 

[~~~^~~~]

This LOA sure takes all the fun out of calling the Mesa and CHQ guys whores!

It also takes a lot of the fun out of decrying the actions of the Delta MEC & ALPA National.

 

[surplus1]

Not surprisingly, all of you non-Comair people with time to throw stones have something to gain for yourselves had we decided to reject this LOA.

Obviously, I'm not painting all of you with the same brush for it is only a few that are ranting and raving. The majority are exercising appropriate discretion and those that are, are not included in my comments.

To those that are included I say this:

Spare me the BS about "saving the profession". Not a one of you has ever put his own job on the line to save anything for yourselves, let alone for anyone else. You're not in a position to throw stones at Comair, so bug off.

The ONLY people that have any "right" to say anything about it are Comair pilots. The rest of you can do for yourselves whatever you feel is in your own best interests. That's all you've ever done so don't get your "p's" in a wad because we of Comair aren't willing to do your work for you at our expense.

I've never seen any of you bitc_hing about it when you took our base, got assigned our airplanes, or got new flying that we didn't get or took your own brand of concessions. I didn't see or hear any of your overnight captains complaining about the money you got for yourselves, by not protecting the wages of your own First Officers. I didn't see you complaining or doing anything about giveing your seniority and your left seats or right seats to the pilots of another airline in exchange for more jets. I never saw or heard you complaining for one second about undercutting our 70-seat wages or about your decision to fly 99 seat jets for 50-seat wage rates. I didn't hear any of you complaining about sacred "mainline" pilots agreeing to fly 70-seat jets for less than 60 dollars in the left seat.

Now you're complaining because we have agreed to stop increasing our pay for a couple of years. You have one he11 of a nerve and I don't mind telling you! We don't owe any of you any apology for anything nor do we need to make any excuses for our decision. The only people we have to answer to are each other. Capiche?

The truth is you're mad at us protecting our own interests because you've been circling like vultures waiting for us to make a mistake so you could eat more as a consequence. Well, this time we didn't make a mistake. We figured out who was on first and it wasn't you, it was Comair pilots. We're going to compete with you on your own terms and that's what you really don't like.

If you don't like where the "bar" is, then go ahead and raise it and spare me the 9/11 excuses. The impact of 9/11 affects us just as much as it affects you and everyone else, not one bit less. So, that just won't fly. You got bigger cojones than we do, then show them in your own behalf and quit trying to hang on to ours. Until you do, you really have nothing to say about what we do or don't do. Get on with it. Lead the way and show us how its done and stop trying to hang on to our coat tails.

There's your candid answer. Deal with it. I'm sick of the sanctimony from a bunch of people who have never done anything other than squeal like piglets at the prospect of some position on the bottom of a bankrupt "mainline" list.

There are few things more sickening than listening to some Pinnacle pilot (you know who you are) who started at Gulfstream and whose daddy works for Delta telling Comair pilots what they should decide for themselves. Especially when only yesterday that very group was gloating about their ability to invade Mesaba's territory and happily accept all the growth that should have gone there.

To the Mesaba guys, the Horizon guys, the Piedmont guys, the XJT guys and the Air Willy guys, thank you for not throwing stones. I can't speak for all Comair pilots but I do respect your discretion so far in this matter. It's appreciated. The rest of you naysayers know what you can do.

 

[N813CA]

surplus1 vbmenu_register("postmenu_546165", true);


Very well said. I can't agree more.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Surplus:

Why do your posts have more "feelings" than the guests of Maury Povich and less sense than Jenny Jones?

Apparently you forgot that ASA pilots walked by Comair jets parked at C & D in Atlanta and we did not b_tch about it. All you got is our unwaivering support.

I have put my stones on the line for you guys and the causes that you used to promote before discovering yourself.

~~~^~~~

P.S. Your vote did not make any difference. Where are you going to deploy your new aircraft? ASA is sending three 70 seaters back to ATL from SLC.

ASA is down to less than 20 reserve RJ Captains with a several month training backlog. Point being - whatever was going to happen is going to happen. Your vote was meaningless.

Why won't you debate me on the facts?

 

[Ad Lib]

it is only a few that are ranting and raving. The majority are exercising appropriate discretion and those that are, are not included in my comments.

Spare me the BS about "saving the profession".

I've never seen any of you bitc_hing about it when you took our base,

I don't mind telling you! We don't owe any of you any apology for anything nor do we need to make any excuses for our decision. The only people we have to answer to are each other.

We're going to compete with you on your own terms and that's what you really don't like.

There's your candid answer. Deal with it. I'm sick of the sanctimony from a bunch of people who have never done anything other than squeal like piglets at the prospect of some position on the bottom of a bankrupt "mainline" list.

The rest of you naysayers know what you can do.

So asking you to give some objective reason for your actions is ranting?

You are not competing with us on our terms, you are going forward under management's terms. All the objective facts indicate that your pay concessions really make no difference in the overall cost structure of Comair, certainly not enough to change whatevr plans Delta already had for Comair, which probably did include growth. Not only is it your turn, but ASA and CHQ are at ( or above ) their capacities for training.

You promoted beliefs on this board that you have now sacrificed with nothing but selfish explanations.

You have told us who supported your causes to shove it. I think we will take your advice.

~~~^~~~

 

[bvt1151]

What surplus said....and then some.

 

[CTS]

Comair pilots are no better than Mesa pilots. Any mesa pilot will tell you they will take less $$ for more growth. Comair did the same thing. I see both sides of the argument on concessions for growth. I just think its funny for the last few years I have read Comair pilot after Comair pilot degrade and ridicule the rest of us in the industry. They think their SOOO much better than their peers. I do feel sorry for those who have to fly with the ones that voted no. I heard over the ops radio in CVG this week "exceptions, Comair ____ or in time in 23 not 21. My idiot FO call the numbers 20yards from the gate." What a looser.

ASA and Comair should never be merged. WE DONT WANT TO WORK WITH BACK STABBING SELLOUTS!

 

[FL000]

I've never seen any of you bitc_hing about it when you took our base, got assigned our airplanes, or got new flying that we didn't get...

The difference between your LOA and these examples, at least in ASA's case, is that our pilot group took no action to make the above happen. In fact, in at least one case, we said "no", but got the planes/flying anyway. As for taking bases...don't even start. I don't think anyone at ASA blamed the Comair pilot group when you swarmed ATL...many months before we saw CVG.

The strike airplanes issue has been addressed ad nauseum.

 

[acarpe3448]

The truth is you're mad at us protecting our own interests because you've been circling like vultures waiting for us to make a mistake so you could eat more as a consequence.

Surplus!

This sounds a lot like what you pissed and moaned so much about when the pilots at Delta were trying to protect our own interests. When we do it, you claim we are hurting your careers, when Comair does it..it's "quit your **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** bitching."

You sound like an idiot. You are an idiot. You all are backstabers who care about nothing but themselves, go ahead admitt it, it wont kill you! Pi$$ off Surplus looser.

 

[Dave Siegel]

7. 60% of us would screw over their mother if meant getting new planes.

There are some honest answers for ya. How do you like them apples?

So, if Canyonblue were your mother... CVG, you have some SERIOUS issues. There's probably some toll free # you can call.

Here it is: 1-800-435-7284

That's 1-800-HELP-CVG

Operators are standing by.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

ACAR,

I suggest anger management..

 

[PCL_128]

There are few things more sickening than listening to some Pinnacle pilot (you know who you are) who started at Gulfstream and whose daddy works for Delta telling Comair pilots what they should decide for themselves. Especially when only yesterday that very group was gloating about their ability to invade Mesaba's territory and happily accept all the growth that should have gone there.

Glad to see that I've been having such and effect on you that you mention me even in the threads that I haven't been participating in. It's always nice to be noticed. At least get it right though. My "daddy" is not a Delta pilot. I'm the first pilot in my family. I just happen to have grown up in the Atlanta area and know many Delta and former EAL pilots.

Surplus, what you and 60% of the CMR pilots have decided does not just affect the CMR pilots, it affects everyone in the industry. All of us will suffer for your selfishness. You and 60% of the CMR pilot group are nothing but whores. You saw visions of shiny new airplanes in your head and gave up money that you had already fought hard for just to get those planes. At least the pilots of Mesa and Mesaba had alter-ego airlines breathing down their necks to make them take such disappointing contracts, but you had no such excuse. This wasn't about saving your jobs, this was about growth. Pathetic.

As for your claim that we have "bragged" about invading Mesaba "territory", you couldn't be more wrong about me. I haven't bragged about any such thing. You know my view of that Surplus: Mesaba doesn't have any territory and neither does Pinnacle. All the flying and territory belongs to Northwest and the NWA pilots. The NWA pilots decide what flying is allowed to go to us, and the Northwest management decides who it goes to. Nothing for us at Pinnacle to brag about. It's completely out of our hands. I can see that you RJDC supporters still can't understand these basic concepts. Pretty sad really.